Western Sun & General Advertiser, Volume 20, Number 20, Vincennes, Knox County, 27 June 1829 — Page 1

3 STJifjiffijoro BY ELIHU STOUT. VINCENNE8, (1ND.) SATURDAY, JUNE 37, 183'J. Vol. XX. So. ao.

.1 r. V i

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sed of for that purpose, and for no other use or purpose whatever. How then it could be said, that this right to the absolute control and dispo

sal of the sod within our borders for our own use and benefit exclusively, was reserved to us by Virginia in her act oF cession, when she there declares it shall be for the use and benefit of all the states, herself inclusive, he could not conceive. The third ground upon which the committee assume this right to the soil, Mr. D. said, was the constitution of the U. States, and they cite the lGth clause of the 6th section, art. 1st, in proof of their position. He said that he would admit, if there was any clause in the constitution forbiding to the U. States the use and ownership of these lands, that they would of course come to the state

as unoccupied cc unappropriated lands as lands

Murk:: Price, tor subscriptions, it delivered l "

'Ml III I IM f' ( li VI 1111 I'S .4 II II IIIW llllllVIIIII.il. I III

within the year.

Apvektishments not exceeding thirteen

lines, will be inserted three times for one dol

lar, and twenty -Jive cents for each alter insertion ionirer ones in the same proportion.

TTlJ ertons sending Advertisements, must

every community Conceded to the state, iiursiiat he did not believe that the clause alluded tojlad any operation of this nature that he considered it was barely intended to limit the U. States ife exercise of the power of exclusive legUlatTuf , and not to limit their right to acquire and hold

specify the number cf times they wish them j property. He remarked that tins clause was

t a t 111 ..,,.1 ,,.,, I r r IU1 IIIVU 111 Uil VI lilU V-VAJ WWII -

inset ten, or iney win uu tuuunutu um crcd out, and must be paid for accordingly.

Indiana Legislature.

f U JM I HI IMPHN'A JOURNAL. DEBATE ON 11 IE DOMAIN QUESTION Mr Dt::: ;aid, that it was his belief the rcsoiutic .! had no foundation in fact, and was hirjdy impolitic. That he understood the grounds upon which gentlemen claimed this riht to the soil to be ---1st! li-. cause that of right it appertained to -. e: v -v, evei;.,"u, free and independent state. 2d, That it i : secured to ttr by the act of cession of YiK'mi.i. Jk. the ordinance of cor-gross. And 3d. the constitution of the U. States, ' he did not intend to nuau el about the wvrdim; of the ivso'uh'imi, but he thought the t: u unappropriated, to be an improper one. That if by it was meant laud- which had no owner, he conceded the po'nt, and would agree with 4 :e committee, that all such lands did of right appertain to the sovereignty ; and if any such were hi the state of Indiana, that they belonged to the state. Hut if by it was meant, the unsold lands belonging to the U. States (which he presumed was the meaning) he could not believe, that any such right existed in the state. That it was not very clear whether the committee considered the right of soil, and the eminent domain, as one and the same thing, or not. T. Kit for his part he thought them widely difler-,--,;r that he would distinguish the one as the i n.-nent domain, and the other as the useful don .in ; and that in making this distinction he w .s '. rue outbv authority. That in his opinion the hole diiiicuHv with "the advocates of this meaire, had grown out of their having blended the ;wo. Viewing it in this light, he could not see . !;y the possession of the useful domain being in .el:. State?, in the least degree infringed upon t ir rights as a sovereign people. He admitted hat the right to the eminent domain was an atrihute d" sw creigntv but not necessarily so was ;.e nsetul domain. The eminent domain he con:.a ; od to be, the right of the sovereign power to the property of the subject for public purposes, h : i vvuig taxes, making roads, canals, &c.

.v-dt in cas"S ot public emergenc, presc'i :rtiaus of it as might be necessary into i i. o, miikiir to the -subject, (under our

!too -u ad' (inate enrnpensatu n

lo'.ualri, he understood the

IU the

right to use.

:! t ujoy pr v.ty absi-'.uttly, wr.uout

O ) : ll,V

1 to make comnensation to am one

wh.ich e

rv ind'nidu al has over Ins

p-. ivate property ; ana it sum was uie piineipie .' ..vn. led lor, that the useful domain of right a- .est-.din the sovereign, it w.r.ild at once ik'.' :if the root of th1 right of individuals to tiair private rrepet ty. No government hut a iV-.p-a'.- one would go th.us far, and he presumed it u.-iM c be contended for by the committee, lie said., he should ho doing injustice to the committee, no: to remark, that although this right to pi ivate property might txirt in an individual m th st.'te without infringing upon the rights ot the sa- et . inn : vet, that it could be so, to permit tins vi.d.t I the useful domain to the laud lying within theb-anulArics cf the one nation to exist,, and be'evg to ano her. Mr. D. said, he could not see t: it it uade anv difference. That in his opinion ': nation that thus held lands within the ae-1-. i wU(';td bo'sudMie- and jurisdiction of ano- :; r nation, held thetn ti;e same as an muiwduai v .uld ludd them, and -d:j. ettn all the rights ot orient domain, n hieh the so ere ign id' the coun-

d. And ot such opinion lie

S'-C

said w as

11.

Mr. li

d l.'V the ciMiuiittee themselves rea.d an extract from Vatulp 16.

the legislative powers of the government are expressly spoken cf, and he thought the bare reading of the article would be sufficient to convince every one upon the subject : Mr D. here read the clause alluded to, as follows: "Congress shall have power to exercise exclusive legislation in all v ases whatsoever, over such district (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of congress,

become the seat of government of the U. States, and to exercise like authority over all places

purchased by the consent of the Legislature of

the state m which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenab, dock yards, and other needful buildings." He thought it would be a very forced and unnatural construction of this article to say that congress could not purchase or own any property, except for forts, eke. when it only said thev should net exercise

exclusive jurisdiction in such places. To say such was its meaning, would amount to a prohibition, that the U. States should not take the real estate of their debtor for debts he might be owing them and which he could not otherwise pay. He said, that the advocates for this right in the new states, he thought had fallen into this error, that they considered if it was conceded that the U. States had the right to purchase and hold land for other purposes than for the erection of forts, cko. that they would also possess the right of exclusive legislation upon those lands. He did rot consider such would be the result. But that their right to exclusive h'islaticn would be confined by this clause to their forts, eke, and that all

men- ouier possessions would oe neiu tne same as an individual would hold them. To show 'hat this mistake had been made, Mr. I) said he would refer to the speech of Gov. Edwards to the legislature of Illinois, recently delivered Gov. Edwards, he stated, had there assumed 'oat if the ibnted Slates held all right, title at d 1 inn ;;s avi U us of soil, as jurisdiction to the Public Lam's in the state. Congress would have power of depriving us of the privilege of feeding our flocks and hunting upon their lands, ike. that they would have power to erect highways and bridges, and exact heavy tolls for passing over them ; to build mills, establish and regulate manufacture regulate price of provisionsmonopolize the market and prevent the settlement of their lands exempt their tenants from taxation, from doing military duty, serving on juries, w orking on roads, eke. : this he thought an mil air mode of treating the subject, because no one concedes that they have such jurisdiction, and lie; c was jumbled together, both private and public rowers. lie said any individual could forbid others coming on his lands he could build mills, erect roads and bridges, and charge w hat he pleased on his own lands. And he thought the U. States would have the same right. True he said, that the state could take these things from the individual ; could take his land for making roads, canals, ckcvby making compensation; and he contended the same could be done with Congress land. It was every days practice. As to the U. States exempting their tenants from taxation, serving on juries, ckc, such a thing, except where they had exclusive jurisdiction, was never heard of they had neer attempted to exercise any such authority here, and if they ever should it would be promptly resisted for those things belong to the so creignty of the states. A gentleman, Mr. I) said, calls my attention to the actions of trespass brought by the U. States in their own courts for injuries done to their lands, lie could not see any thing improper in this. An action of trespass, he said, lay for eery individual for similar injuries, and could we deprive the

L ruled

riil ot the contract, he still thought it would be more honorable to abide by it. It was, when entered into, considered a beneficial contract for tho state. There was no imposition practised upon us; it was well known to those men who passed the ordinance, and those who accepted o! it, that the state had

the right to tax the U. Statas' lands within her borders, and the convention saw proper to give up that right for what was then con

ceived to be, an adequate compensation. gain, he said, what would be the consequence if the state flies from the bargain? th?0. States will do so also; and we must return the consideration which she has gived us which is the 16th section in each township the seminary iands the donation wheie we stand, and the 5 per cent, retained for roads and canals, Mr. D. thought it would not be prudent to do so. He also doubted the expediency of the mtasuie. What, he asked, was the principle which we were demanding of the U. Starts to adopt ? N i barely that ttie lands remaining unsold at this time, were ours as a matter ol tight, but also that all those which were unsold in 1 8 1 G, when wt entered into the, state government, were ours; this he believed was more than it could be expected congress would yield. They might in a few years be willing to give us the re

maining land; but to acknowledge

pie which would di

sury, he thought the

states would never

to acknowledge a pi b-s raw millions from the irr c icy never would. I hcftfTd consent to it. when it was.

grtss and from the iollowing ioso instruments : that the states

s o w M ii

i t o i r

o t

c oi '.-ana'

i ). sa

. Ml '. HI, !'

1 con 1 1 a -n. :v

die ctded territory -.hould be udepe ttuent states ; that we ie Union upon an equal foot st ates in every respect what.at he eot-ideitd the equal-

ok.n or, to moan e auakt in respect to

s ; and if gentlemen would carry it must v v it meant physical rights: ;r 'sunist enlarge our lakes into i i e e.s sea noi ts, wealth and po

rn ust

ni pi

extend our boundaries, and

is lv correspond and equal with tates. That in a political point

ir i

t'o .-f 'he old

i - w In i . - i,u cro the state ot Indiana to

: - it o. Sue and independent as any of the k ! st.'U ;Ul i thiv; was all that was intended by iv- :o t -f ceitai and the ordinance. That the to t!K- v. al v as tn t intended, eident ' , i n i. tin r expressions i:r the act of cession, for . ;',(! e sjd th it the lands so ceded should forr 'a- co'iMdrred as a common fund for the use -. ' i'Mu-ft of su'di of the U. States as have be- , , or hall become members of the confedca, r hiieral alliance of the states, Virginia iVw , aerording to their usual and respectixe u: i a. tions in the general charge and expendi- , and dull be faithfully and bona fide dhpo-

States ot a right which every man in

v. a, a"--mpted to upport this rit-ht ot j community possess for the protection of his pro- I a. t - ! oesn n ot Virginia, and by the j pel t 3 And w ith retrard to their slicing in the i

United State's Courts, that w as a right consequent upon the establishment of those Courts, and one guaranteed b the constitution. Mr. D. would agree the the state was shorn of some of her rights of sovereignty by the acceptance of the conditions annexed by the U. States to the ordinance authorizing us to form a state government, or rather that they were suspended tor a time. He alluded to the agreement not to tax the U. States land, ckc. But he considered the state could make such arrangement if she saw proper she could agree upon certain considerations to exonerate the land of any individual, or government within her territory, ifS taxation. It had been often done. He instarV! the property of Seminaries and Religious societies. It had been said, however, that in tlf? plO sent instance, it had not been legally done. He remaiked, however, that altho the people had not then formed themselves into a state government, yet they elected their representatives to the convention after the passage of the ordinance, with a full knowledge of its contents, and w ith a positive understanding that those representati es were to act upon, and cither accede to or reject those conditions. They did accept of them, and he thought the agreement binding upon the state. But even if we could plead infancy, as is contended for, and could thereby r;et

fl n 5 l-i 1 1 rfi lirpil in t 1 , rw n r- .1' (ort!fn r P

'l .llllljr MklUI .1 til HIV UVl Ul Ul It - ginia, that these lands should be a fund, for their common benefit. The lesult then w ould be, that we might obtain as a matter of favor by requesting it of congress, wc by demand ing as a right, altogether prevent their granting to us, by rcr.son ot the alarming extent ol the pi iuciplc, and of the consequences resui ting from it. Ho would ask gentlemen when they expected congress would accede to then proposition i He believed tha? the most banguine did not suppose it would be done for many years to corne By that time, he said, the lands remaining would be of little value, and congiess would be willing to give them to us any rate, right, or not right. In the mean time, he said, if v c pass this resolution, we cannot with any appearance of propriety, solicit congress for any further donation-!! land to complete the gieat works of intjfiyl improvement going on in the :tatc. and tTr others which wj might wish to unclertakcvf We effectually tic up our own hands, ; shut our own mouths. The state then will rrain nothing by persisting in demanding as a right, what she will get equally as soon by asking as a favor ; but on the contrary, she runs an absolute risk of not obtaining this land at all ; in the opinion of every one, it is considered that in a few years, when the lands beconu somewhat less valuable, the U. States will be willing to donate them to us, and that before that period would at rive, he had no doubt but that many liberal grants would be made ol part of this tcrritoiy for our benefit. He had no doubt but that a resolution at the present time, asking for the lands remaining unsold

m the older counties, would be listened to vvith attention. And that in ten year 3 more the whole would be given up and he was not willing to jeopardize this certain result by grasping at too much at once. Theic fore by every principle ol tight and C""very consideration ot expediency, he t!iu;tit the resolution ought to be stiteken out. Mr. Uumont said: I with somedgrce of reluctance, enter into a debate on a subject to which I am a stranger. I profess too much ignorance ot the law of nations, to determine this matter. However, much it may mortify my feelings, yet I must cay I do not understand this question of right to the domain, sufficiently to say whether this land is, or is not ours I presume too, that a majoiity ot this House are like myself, not fully satisfied as to the question of right ; but still there may be no division of sentiment, as to the de sire of success. We all want 44 the loav es and fishes,' wc are all willing to have the land ; therefore, the important question should be,

in what way, or by what means will we be most likely to succeed ? It cannot be by raising the crest of defiance, it cannot be by assuming a menacing position, not by an open declaration of hostilities. U There is an inconsistency in the idea,'-k!e. elating our sovereign rights of soil,anl jjtioning at the same time. Those whir pre tend to be lords and owners of the soil, ought not to petition lor liberty to possess it. It will be fruitless for Indiana to open a warfare with the whole Union. The Federal Government is too powerful for us, and we would inevitably fail in such an enterprise. But if gentlemen are satisfied that this land is ours, if there be no question about the tight we may institute a suit at law for it. No one will say, that, a single state cannot sue the United States, or that the United States cannot sue a single state. Then it this land be ours, we may sue for i, wc may bring an c jectmcnt against the United States and recov cr This willbc far more consistent, than to threaten, and petition, and claim, and beg, all in one instrument, and by one single effect or resolution. I trust that gentlemen ?ho are now acting on this floor, are actuated by the true interests of the people, and that they

will not speak and vote that their names may go abroad in the newspapers, and be resounded by the populace, as the champions of the

peoples rights ; but that they will duly weigh the matter, and if they really wish to possess the lands, in order that rising generations

may be educated with the proceeds thereof, and that roads and canaU may be constructed therewith, they will adopt such meatus as may have some plausibility It is beginning to be thought that the land concern is unprofitable to the nation convince Congress of this, and convince them of our wants in a becoming manner, and their may be some distant prospect of success. But should we assume a warlike attitude, though Congress

might be well satisfied of the unprofitableness ot the land, they would indignantly repel us they would spuin us To grant the prayer of those who demand in a preremptory manner, would only encourage rebellion, and fix a prtcedent for like demands from other states and territories, inconsistent with the interest of Congress to comply with. This resolution claims the soil the amendment barely prays for a cession the amendment may avail us something It may if adopted, and the prayer thereof granted by Congress, 1 benefit posterity, but the resolution can only.

tend to darken the rrlnnm of nnr nrosnccts. "

Then I earnestly urge the striking out the resolution and the adoption of the amendment Do we wish success ? do we want

land and treasure from the General Government ? If we do, we must not aim to please

the populace by visional y projects of prreat

wealth we must not be desiicus of newspa

per fame, or of having it said that we man-T Vs fully supported the claim of the State to thc' eminent domain but we must come down Vs to the plain dictates of common sense, and convince the Government that the land is unprofitable to them; that it would be a welcome bounty to us and that however just our claim might be, we would be thankful for the cession. tIf we can succeed at all, this is in my estimation the only method to

insure success.

Borough Ovdinun cc. JX ORDlAjCK in amendment of the Ordinance to prevent nuisances, tec passed the 15th November, 1828 Sec. 1 BE it ordained by the Trustees cj the Iiorough oj Vincennes in Common Coun cil assembled, That so much of the fifth section of the Ordinance passed the 1 5th November, 1828, eiitnled An Oidiname to prevent Nuisances, and for other purposes," as authorizes a fine of three dollars to be assessed for galloping, or suffering to gallop,

any horse, mule, or other beast, in the public V A jtrcels, shall be, and the same is hereby rc.y' pealed, fsavintr however the finesalrcadv ast

sessed, and prosecutions commenced under the above ordinance.) Sec. 2. That hereafter when any person shall wilfully, and without any apparent, or real necessity, strain a horse, or other beast,

thiough any public street in this Borough, he or she shall pay a fine of not less than fifty cents, nor more than three dollars. SVc. 3. That in all cases which may hereafter occur, of Bitch dogs running at large, where the same accidentally happens, it shall

be an excuse to the owner from paying J fine, provided he or she, shall and do reclaim. l

and confine said Bitch dog, as soon as infor

med ol her being loose.

This Ordinance shall take effect from and after its publication Passed June 10. 1329. G W. JOHNSTON, Ch'mn. Saml. Hill, Clk.

Estray Black Marc Colt. 'JpAKEN upby Bluford Thickston, living H in Harrison township, Knox county, a black man , and a black horse colt : the marc is supposed to be 14 hands high, three white feet, some saddle spots, much rubbed fiorrx gears w hen taken up. supposed to be 6 years old, no other marks or brands perceivable,, appraised to $26 The colt is supposed to be 12 hands high, a blaze face, two white fectj a white spot on its belly, one year old in tho coming summer or fall, no other marks nor brands perceivable, appraised to g5, by Alexander McCoy & Robert Gamble, betoie me, Wm JUNK1N, j r. May 19, 1829. l8-3t State of Indiana, PIKE COUNTY. Pike Circuit Counr,sct, Harriet Townsend, "J vs. L Petition Jar Divorce.

OsmerO Townsend J v

AFFIDAVIT having been made herein according to law, that the defendant, Osmer O. Townsend. is not an inhabitant of this state ordered, that notice of the pendency of this suit be given by publication in tho Western Sun, a paper printed at Vincennes, for four ccks successively ; and it is further ordered, that unless the defendant appear on the first day of the next term of the Pike Circuit court and answer the said complaint, the matters and things therein contained will be decreed against him in his absence. A copy test, JOHN McINTIRE, Clk. r c.c. May 30, 1 829. 17-4t