Terre Haute Weekly Gazette, Terre Haute, Vigo County, 8 September 1881 — Page 1

SENATOR VOORHEES.

An Interview With Him by Reporter of the Gazette.

His Views on the Question of Executive Inability.

An Estimate of Arthur and a Forecast of his Political Affiliations,

And Political Course Should he Become President.

How the 8enate Would be Organized and a Presiding Officer Would be Elected-

An Interesting and Important Expression of Opinion by our Distinguished Townsman

Tlio dangerous wound received by President Garfield and the fears f:lt for his ultimate recovery have brought the country face to face with several serious questions. Recognizing the gravity of the situation and tlifire being a very general desire upon the part of the people to learn the views of Senator Voorliees, whose position as a Senator clothes his opinions with authority, a reporter of the GAZETTE WCS sent to interview him. He secured the following, which will be read with deep interest:

Question.—What are your views on the question of the President's inability Who determines when such inability begins and ends, and how does the Vice-Presi dent, in such an event, assume the office?

Answer.—That is a very comprehensive question, and one of the highest importance. li is now fondly hoped by all that the President will survive and be restored to health, but it is plain to the most ordinary observer tlwit his journey back to tli" discharge of the great and laborious duties of his official position will be very long and very slow. It will certainly take months, and is quite as likely to be measured by a year or more. Indeed it is possible that the President might live through his term and years beyond it with a broken constitution, and permanently disabled from jK itorming any of the duties of life. I state this as a mere possibility to show the importance of the question you ask The consequences to the human frame of a large ball making a track nearly eighteen inches in depth in the body, and remaining there, can never be foreseen. The discussion therefore ot the duties of the Vice-President, in the present crisis, would seem to be most timely and proper, not as if an immediate emergency was upon us, but as a matter which may become of great practical moment in the near future. Of course we are withoat precedents in American history on this

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oint. No wounded, or disabled Presiever before lay lingering between lite and death in the White House. We must be guided by the constitution itself, and by the reasons which grow out of the nature of our institutions. In section 1, Article 2 of the constitution, it i9 provided as lollows: "In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same Hhall devolve on the Vice-President."

There are four contingencies here upon tlio happening of either one of which the Vice President shall act as President, and concerning three of them there is no uncertanity or doubt as to when or how he shall so act. In the event of the President's removal from office by impeachment, or of his death or resignation, his relation to the duties of the office terminates at once and forever, and the Vice-President, under his oath to support the constitution, has nothing to do but to step forward and discharge the duties which the constitution in express terms devolves upon him. In the fourth and last contingency however much difficulty arises. To provide against the inability of the President to discharge the duties of his office while vet alive and in office was a verj plain duty of the framers of the constitution, in view of the visitations of issanitv and disease, but nothing is

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jlainet to my mind than the fact that a of Congress would be necessary to carry this constitutional provision into effect. Individuals have no more authority to determine official questions than the laws give them. Who at this time is authorized by law to declare that the President is unable to perform the duties of his office? The fact may be so, but who has the legal right to say to him,

"here

your functions cease," and to the Vice-President, "here your powers and duties begin?" Certainly no one will contend that the Vice-President himself has the right. Such a construction would not only oe outsde of any express law, but it would be monstrous in its practical application. It would leave to an aspiring vice-President the right to decide upon all the ailments and disabilties of the President and to take his office from him whenever he chose to d6 so. It would also leave him the right to determine when such ailments and disabilities ceased, and when, if ever, he would turn the office over again to its rightful occupant If it should happen, as it sometimes has in the history of the country, that the vice-President was in a hitter warfare against the President, and was in open, active league with the President's most powerful ana vindictive enemies, I submit that the office would likely change hands upon a very slight "inability" on the part of the President. To

use the favorite expression of Senator Thurman in debate, ''That won't_ do." The spectacle of a vice-President striding into the Executive Mansion, on his own motion, and assuming its duties while the President himself is yet a)ive, although disabled and sick, will never be witnessed or tolerated by the American people.

Q.—What do you say, however, as to the right and power of the Cabinet to declare the President's inability and to invite the Vice-President to act iu his place?

A.—The Cabinet have no such right or power at all no more than any other eoual number of gentlemen. The duties ot the Cabinet officers are specified by law and they cannot go beyond them. This is a government of delegated and specified powers emenatingfrom the people themselves who are the source of all power Individuals in office have not a hair's breadth of authority beyond what is expressly granted in the laws, and the better this fact is understood the safer it will be for the country. What kind of a proclamation could the Cabinet issue on this subject VV hat clause of the constitution or what section of the statutes of the United States could they cite as authority for interfering with the question at all And it the Cabinet is to determine the inability of the President would they not also have to determine his recovery? If we are to submit these questions of physical and mental incapacity to persons unauthorized by law to decide them, I think after all wa. had berter go with them to the Doctors. The truth, is, however, that the people must determine them through their representatives in Congress.

Q. But suppose the President is now, and should remain, so disabled that he could not call Congress together to enact the necessary legislation.

A. I have heard that point presented before. Congress convenes in regular session by law early in December. This government is so well constructed, so harmonious and so strong in its simplicity of execution that not a single inter est will suffer if the President should not be able to lift his hand or speak above a whisper from this time until the regular meeting of Congress. With all our partisan differences the American people are solidly united in their love for the institutions of their count™ and in their devotion to stability. There is also great conservatism at this time in the public mind in view ot the condition of the President. The man or set of men who would now raise needless difficulties or present factious quest'ons with which to embarrass the administration of the government would meet with a heavy and deserved condemnation at the hands of the people. No, there will be no trouble, nor necessity for Taction until congress meets, even if the President should remain as powerless as he is now.

Q.—In what, way do you think concress would provide for* the Vice-Presi-dent to enter upon the duties of the presidency if such action should be necessary when congress convenes

A.—It seems to me that the simplest, safest, and most efficient method would be to create a commission composed say of hve members, embracing the chief justice of the supreme court of the United States, the Secretary of State, the Surgeon General of the army, and two of the attending surgeons whose duty it should be to determine whether the President was unable to discharge the duties of his office,the action ot the VicePresident,of course, to depend upon their decision. This commission would determine at what point the President had sufficiently recovered to assume his duties. There may be better methods, but this is the best that has occurred to me without having given the subject anything like a careful investigation. Geo. Ill of England was insane during many years of his life, and the Prince of Wales, afterward George IV, reigned in his stead under the style and title of Prince Regent. There was no assumption of the succession, however, by the prince or by the cabinet. It was all regulated by act of Parliament although the Prince of Wales was heir to the throne upon the death or inability of the King. Doubtless an examination of the action of the British Parliament on this subject would afford valuable information.

Q—Supposing the President to be un able to sign an act of Congress, how would the necessary legislation take place?"

A—An act of Congress becomes a law three ways: First, by being signed by the Executive,second, by not being return ed to Congress within ten days and third, bv being passed over the veto. If the President was unable to sign his name the bill would not be^returned, and in ten days would become a law without his signature.

Q.—In the event of the President's death what in your opinion would be President Arthur's policy, and what is your estimate of his ability and fitness for the office

A.—I have not the slightest disposition to speafc in disparagement of Mr. Arthur but in my candid opinion he is less fitted for the office of President on the score of ability, training in politics, official experience, and intimate surroundings and advisers than any man whose name was ever seriously canvassed in connection with that great position. I think the whole country distrusts him perhaps as much as I do. There will he a rush to worship the rising sun if he attains power, but at heart the feeling of the country is the same as I express.

If, however, in the inscrutable providence of God he is to become President, I wish him success in giving the country peace and prosperity, and I will assist him all I can but I must be permitted to doubt. In my opinion his policy will be a personal one. He is sandwiched permanently between Grant and Conkling. As faithfully as an administrator with a will annexed he will cany out their wishes. They are both full of the most intense grievances. Grant remembers his defeat at Chicago with a bitterness that makes him brutal and savage on that subject. Oonkling dwells on his defeat at Albany with but one undying purpose, and that is to get even with his

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VOL. XVIII.—NO. 37. TERRE HAUTE, IND.—THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 8 1881.

enemies. These two men arc both strong ill their different ways, and when combined, as they are, they constitute a power which will control absolutely every step of Arthur's administration. Let there be no mistake on this point.

Q.—But what do you think will be his policy OE public questions? A.—Towards the South bitter and persecuting. Conkling originated the Mahone movement in the Senate, and from him we received the first intimation on the floor of the Senate that Mahone had gone over, and we soon afterwards ascertained the price that had been paid far him. Arthur's policy, of course, would be to sustain him, ana in doing so to degrade the honor and good name of Virginia and encourage similar corruption throughout the South. On the great question of the monopolies, which in fact overshadows all others, the people need look for no assistance from Arthur, Grant and Conkling.

Q.—Have you seen the reported interview with Senator Beck, in which he says, speaking of the course he would pursue in the event of the death of President Garfield, that: **It would be a time when love of country should rise above all party questions. I should be in favor ot the election of some conservative Republican, say Henry B. Anthony, of Rhode Island, to the position of Presi dent pro tem. of the Senate, and thus avoid any inducement ,for any insane person or political tanatic to desire the death of Mr. Arthur?" How is it that a Democratic Senator can only show his love of country by voting for a Republican, and why is it that peace and quiet can only be maintained by keeping the executive department in the hands of Republicans

A.—I have seen the reported interview to which you allude and I doubt if it is correct. 8enator Beck is one of our ablest and safest men and I do not believe he made the statement you quote in your question. It is a matter ot simple, but absolute demonstration ttiat, in the abscenceof Mr. Arthur when congress convenes the Democrats will organize the Senate. It cannot be otherwise unless Democratic Senators prefer to vote for a Republican against a member of their own side of the Chamber. Let me read you the law on the subject of the Senates organization. Section 28 oi the U. S. revised statutes reads as follows: "The oath of office shall be administrated by the Presidest of the Senate to each Senator who shall hereafter be elect ed previous to his taking his scat."

There is no other way in which a Sen ator can be sworn in and

become

a mem­

ber of the Senate except as herein provided The President of the Senate must administer the oath. But in the absence of Authur there is no President of the Senate, and therefore it follows with mathematical certainty that no Senator can be sworn in until

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a President of

the Senate is elected. Seventy-lour Senators have been sworn as members of the present Senate the two Senators from New York, recently chosen have yet to take the oath Of office. The President ot the Senate canal one perform that duty. The newly elected Senators therefore from New ork have no more chance to become members ot the Senate until after the Senate is organized by the election of a President of that body than they have to become members of the the college of cardinals. When the Senate next meets it will be composed of thirty-seven Democrats and Judge Davis who will most likely vote with them on organization, on the one side, and thirty-five Republicans, and Mahone making thirty-six, on the other. Messrs. Lapham and Miller from New York will be there, but not yet Senators. They will be in waiting to be admitted which cannot take place until the presiding officer is chosen. Thereupon a reso lution will be offered:

RESOLVED:—That A. B., a Senator from be and is hereby chosen President of the Senate pro tempore.

There are numerous precedents in the Sen ate's history for this course. On the adoption ot this resolution the Senators electfrom New York,of course,have no votes." A Democrat will necessarily be chosen if others feel as I do that I can best manifest my love of country by sustaining the men and measures of my own party. If I felt otherwise I would join the Republican party at once.

Q.—Who do you think will be elected President of the senate if the Democrats succeed

A.—Mr. Bayard, as the senior senator in service on our side, is entitled to it by all the precedents and will be chosen. —Is it true that the Republican senators made an offer at the last session that the Democrats might electa President of the senate if they would elect Senator Harris of Tennessee

A.—No, there is no truth in that statement whatever. A newspaper item of that sort got started and has misled a great many people and amongst ihem some senators. I personally know, however, that it is not true, for the day it appeared I went to Senator Morrill and other leading Republican Senators, and was assured by them that the matter had not even been mentioned in their caucus and that no such purpose was entertained by them.

Q.—Do yon think any objection will be made to" the admission of the New York Senators after the senate is organized?

A.—I am inclined to think there will be objection and investigation and I think there ought to be. I know there would be if the senators elect were Democrats, and the Republicans had control of the senate. The history of congress is full of instances where men have been kept out of the senate and out of the house until not only the circumstances of their election were enquired into but until their whole lives were sifted. The whole Kentucky delegation was kept out I believe nearly a year while a committee of the House investigated whether Beck during the war had sent a bottle of bourbon whisky through the lines to Breckinridge or something equally dreadful. The circumstances connected with the senatorial contest in New York were scandalous in the extreme. Bribe money appears to*have abounded in profusion and thousands of

dollars oi it were left in Albany as thieves abandon stolen goods, not daring to assert ownership. Indictments for bribery were found by the Grand Jury and are still pending against ieading Republicans for crimes alleged to have been committed in securing the election of the successors to Conkling and Piatt. Peijury was committed mountain high: oaths were piled up against each other until the whole country was shocked at such stupendous mendacity. If half th 3 accounts given in the press at the time are true the list New York legislature was the most venal, corrupt and degraded legislative body that ever met in the United States. To secure the defeat of Mr. Piatt, and consequently Mr. Conkling means were resorted to which would shock a Digger Indian's sen#e of decency. And aiiae from all the*c things I understand there is a great, legal question to. settle in Miller's case. It

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is claimed that

his election is illegal from the fact that a majority of the legislature did not participate in it. For these, and perhaps other reasons it strikes me that an investigation into the recent senatorial election in New York would be eminently proper. I would certainly Bay the same if the senators elect were of my own party.

Q.—One more question and I am done. Have you any idea who will be appointed to nil the vacancy on the Supreme Bench made by the death of Justice Clifford?

A.—1 have not, but I have a very dis tinct conviction that a Democrat ought to be appointed. There is but one Democrat now on the supreme bench and I will not vote to confirm a Republican in the place of Clifford. That court ought not to be packed any more solidly than it already is. The appointment properly belongs to the south which is without representation in that court Senator Garland otArkansas is my choice He is a great lawyer and would adorn the bene

SECRETARY THOMPSON.

His Views on Executive Inability And Cognate Questions,

As Given iii an Interview With a JSazetta Reporter.

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A Precedent in Washington's Time ^Fhicb, If not Quite,

Very Nearly Hatches the Question now Presented in President eld's Case.

An Able Presentation of Important and Interesting Questions

By Ex-Secretary of the Navy R- W Thompson.

The questions raised by the serious illness of President Garfield, consequent on the infamous and bloody work of Guiteau, are of the highest importance to the welfare of the country and are, for the most part, new. It seemed therefore of the greatest consequence to the GAZETTE that the views of ex-Secratary Thompson on the3e subjects should be obtained. His reputation as a constitutional lawyer, and his known acquire* ments in the field of political history give to his opinions a weight which match in importance the gravity of the situation. The reporter found Col. Thompson, as the people all call him, preferring that title,

vwhich

was given to him by them

years ago, to his later one of Secretary, in his spacious library and surrounded by his books. The interview with him was as follows:

Question.—What, in your opinion, is the proper mode of deciding the inability of the President to dischare the powers and duties of his office

Answer.—Congress having omitted to prescribe any mode of proceeding in such cases, and the Constitution containing no other provision than that which requires the Vice President to discharge the powers and duties of the Presidency in the event of the inability of the President, and the question never having been heretofore settled, it must be decided by the suggestions of common sense, which is the safest guide in conducting all the affairs of government. It does not seem tome that the question presents any ground for the display of technical learning.

The President's inability may arise from mental or physical causes, or, as I suppose, from long continued absence from the seat of government. If he should become mentally incompetent to act, on account of insanity in any of its forms, the question might be judicially decided, as is the custom with other individuals in that condition, and in such case the judicial finding would sufficiently establish the fact. Upon proper notification ot the fact the Vice President would be required to perform the duties of President. This he would do, under the Constitution, until the President's disability was removed—that is, temporarily or permanently, as the case might be.

Where the inability arises from cal causes, as is now the case with

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Nor in my opinion, are the Cabinet competent to decide the question. Its members perform all their duties under the supervison of the President. Whatsoever they do Is, in contemplation of law, done under his direction. Their combined action makes up the history of his administiation. They are his administrative agents in conducting the affairs of Government, and if they should decide that he was unable to perform the duties of his office, the decision would be in contemplation of law, his own that is, all its weight and influence would be derived from him.

In my opinion, therefore, the question of physical inability is one which the President is competent to decide for himself, and that he is the only one who can properly decide it. It is wholly unlike the case of mental inability, where, if it existed, the mind would be incompetent to act. In the present condition of President Garfield his mind is perfectly clear. He is fully conscious of his own condition, and realizes the necessity of being removed from Washington, and the inconveniences and hazards which will attend such a step. He knows also the nature of the duties which the Presidential office requires of him, and that while some of those duties may be discharged away from Washington there are others that cannot. He is, therefore, not only in a condition to decide, but fully competent to decide, and more competent to to do so than anybody admitted to his sick chamber, whether he now is, or is likely soon to be, able to discharge the duties of his office. If he shall undertake to do this, before his contemplated removal from Washington, the course of procedure seems clear to my mind. The fact of his inability should be announced by the Secretary of State by means of a proclamation signed by the President, aud the Secretary should notify the Vice President that th« President desires him to discharge the duties of his office during his absence from Washington, or the continuance of his inability. This, of course, the Vice President would not hesitate to do immemediately, so that at the moment of the President's leaving Washington the helm of affairs would pass into his hands, and the Government would go on without hitch or jar.

Q.—What, in vOtif opinion, is the proper course for President Garfield now to pursne

A.—Accepting it as a fact that he Is in a lair way for ultimate recovery, and that his mind is entirely clear so that be fully realizes bis condition, and that he is likely to be removed from Washington, it appears to me that it would be proper for him to invite the Vice President, in the manner I have indicated, to discharge the duties of the Presidential office until his health shall be restored and he shall return to Washington. Whether any such method as this, of employing the services of the Vice President, was in the minds of the framers of the Constitution we can not now decide but it was manifestly in the mind of Washington, when, during his Presidency, he had occasion to be absent from Philadelphia, the seat ot government, for over two months, upon a visit to the extreme southern states. The example set by him is not without its use now.

Q.—You do not mean to say that Washington furnished a precedent by which President Garfield may be now governed?

A.—Not exactly that, and yet nearly so. Washington was not laboring under physical inability, but was unable to perform the duties of his office on account of absence from the seat of government, at a time when there were some public questions pending which required the personal action of the President. Inability, as I have said, may arise from absence, and this, it appears, was the opinion of Washington But the coursc of proceedure, in so far as the Vice President is concerned, must be tne same in any case,— no matter whether it arises from absence or from physical causes.

The absence of President Washington from the seat of Government was very protracted, covering a period of nearly three months. The distance traveled by him would not amount to much in these days, but then it did amount to a great deal. He traveled, during his absence, about seventeen hundred miles, with the same team of horses. Consequently he realized that his inability to discharge the duties of President while absent, required him to provide that, during its continuance thsre should be some other public tunctionaiy to dischaige them. Accordingly, before he left Philadelphia, he addressed an official communication to the Secretaries of State, Treasury and War, instructing them that if, in their opinion, any serious and important eases should arise, after his departure, of a nature to demand his personal attention, they should notify him and he would immediately return. But if they determined that such business as arose could be acted upon without his personal agency, they should transact whatever the emergency required and he would approve and ratify what was done by them. But he went one step further, and instructed them that, in deciding upon any such question of emergency, that should arise, they should consult the Vice President and request his opinion —that is, that they should request the Vice Preainent to act for him during his absence.

The Secretary of State, Mr. Jefferson, notified the Vice President, John Adams, by forwarding to him a copy of the President'scommunication but whether any occtwinn for his tntervention arose I have been unable to discover. Nor is it im portant, in as much ss the example shows how, in the opinion of Washington, the services of the Vice President could be properly secured to aid in the discharge of Presidential duties. I see no reason why those of the present Vice

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dent Garfield, there can be no judicial proceedings had, because Congress has conferred no jurisdiction for that purpose upon any of the courts of the United Slates. The Supreme Court is appellate only and has no original jurisdiction, and therefore no such question as the ability or inability of the President to discharge the duties of his office could be brought Wore it.

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the event that the Vice Presi­

dent should be called to act an President, would it be necessary to administer tohim a new oath

A.—Possibly not absolutely necessary and yet it might be considered most prudent to do it. The President's oath is fixed by the constitution, while that of the Vice President and all other officers is fixed bylaw. Theyare.essentially different. All are sworn to support and defend the constitution, but the President alone is sworn to faithfully execute the office of President, and, consequently, it could do no harm if the same oath should be taken by the Vice President, upon his assuming the powers and duties of the Presidentiali office. It was done in the three cases* where the Vice Presidents have takent possession of the Presidential office in consequence of death, and although the* precedents furnished by those cases are* bad in so far as they concern the relations, between the Presidential and Vice (Presidential offices, yet as the constitutional o*th was administered in all of them, there is no good leason why it should not be done in the case of temporary ^service. And yet it does not seem to methat any question could arise that would invalidate any act of the Vice President even if acting under Jno other than his. Vice Presidential oath. When John Tyler succeeded Gen. Harrison, it was insisted by a great number that to recognize him as President would be to violate? the constitution. I remember distinctly how emphatic John Quincy Adams* was upon this subject, and how earnestly he insisted that upon the death of the President, the 4 "Vice President did not take the office or President, bat merely discharged its powers and duties. I recollect also it was claimed at the time that the Vice President could not draw the Presidential salary without a specific appropriation by Congress. All the objeclions., however, were yielded, aud the error committed in 'Tyler's case, wia repeated in Fillmore's aud in Johnson's. Yet no such question could now arise in theevent that the Vice President should be called to act temporarily, nor do 1 suppose that it is a matter of any special conseouence whether, in such case, he should take an additional oath or not.. Presidential motives often dictate things to be done which are not absolutely§4 necessary and, therefore, the Presidential oath, taken without form, before '*4 a judge or justice of thepeace, and filed in the State Department,, would, in my opinion, be satisfactory to the whole country.

Q.—Do you think the public business* has suffered in consequence of the confinement of President-Garfield,1 to such an extent as to create the inability contemplated by the constitution.

A.—I have no idea that the publicbusiness has yet suffered at all. Thedirect and personal duties of the President are far less tnan is generally supposed. Relieve him from the tremendous pressurefor office, from the necessity of having to listen, morning, noon, and night, t« the most importunate demands for places,t and the absolute and necessary duties of his office would not be greatly laborious,, nor require any thing like all his time. I? have seen but a single case referred to« where it is said that his personal act is necessary, that is, the retirement of the Chief of the Bur- a eau of Provisions and Clothing in the Navy Department, and the appointment of his successor. I do not think that thin is a matter which concerns the public welfare in the least. The question ofcompleting the retirement of General Cutter may be decided as well hereafter as now„ and if it can not be done, as it probably can not be, without the personal approval of the President, it may be done* as well six months hence as now. Theonly question which could, in the-^ mean time, arise, would be one of pay, if and this would make very little differencc, for the reason that, having no suecessor appointed, there would be no one^l to draw the salary of the Chief of Bureau, and General Cutter's pay would be re-] duced to that of Pay Director, while, the Secretary of the Navy may? him self perform the duties of the Chieof that or any other bureau. While I was secretary I performed the duties o£j Chief of one of the Bureaus for several months, as the office was, during ther time, vacant

I can scarcely imagine of anything! that has occurred in any of the departmeuts, where the personal act of the President has been necessary, and where the public interest has suffered in conae-) quence of the want of it. The necessaryt operations of all the Departments are-£ going en justasif he were in perfect i1 health, and it is these only that involve»' the public interest. There may be some who would like to see removals froou office going on with a view to the reward of themselves or their friends, but the public interest is not suffering in the-' least by the present condition of affairs, %-b Some cases of pardon may be' urgent, but no positive injury can be sustained by the pubic if these are no t/, acted on at all.* The fact is I suppose that those cases now awaiting the per sonal action of the President are very few and unimportant to the public. But at» all Tents, as the President is likely to* leave Washington and cannot in the nature of things, become well enough to return for some time, the occasion is one which fully justifies hiui in invoking the assistance of the Vice President, and 1 shall be glad to see him do it. Thee during his absence, his mind will he relieved in a great degree, from official cases, and his courage, which has already he shown itself ao imdomitable, will have

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President may not be so secured iu the same way by President Garfield, during his absence from Washington and the continuance of his physical inability. Tbev belong to the same party, and there would lie the continuance of the same policy. And it would show the existence of such concord and harmony in the Republican party as would assure to it other and future triumphs.

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fnll play in restoring him to health—»» thing which the whole nation not only desires but is now praying for every

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