Indiana State Sentinel, Volume 24, Number 43, Indianapolis, Marion County, 17 June 1875 — Page 2

THE INDIANA STATE SENTINEL. THURSDAY JUNE 17 1875

THE INQUISITION.

THE INVESTIGATION OF THE CHARGES AGAINST McINTIRE Ss CO. TAWKKER'S ANSWER AND TUE TE3 TIMXNY TAKEN. Ilf A5SWEXTO THR CHARGES OP CONSPIRACY FAWKNER ENTERS AN EMPHATIC DENIAL, AND CHALLENGES PROOF THE BOARD MAKES A REQUEST THAT THET MAY NOT BE TRADUCED RV THE PRESS TWO WITNESSES EXAMINED. There was a Urse attendance at the open lnzcf tb9 investigation Into the charges pre-rrr-A inst the management ot the Asylum for the Deaf and Dumb, yesterday afternoon Fawkner and his counsel were the first in attendance. A lew minutes after 2 o'clock Messrs. Mclntire and Valentine, th their counsel and friends entered and took their E laces to the right of the board.all the memers belDR present. Dr. James exhibited unmistakable symptoms of suffering from sickness. In opeuinz the proceedings. Chairman Jameson took occasion to request that the press would retrain from comments upon the we prejudicial to participants, lie made the remark, after having consulted with both members.in view ot the comments made in a morning paper, affecting oce of them. In conclusion he observed that the committee hadn't the power of a court in the premises and could only request. Such criticism as had been alluded to could only have the effect of embarrassing the proceedings. General Harrison for the defense expressed the Bamr desire. Mr. James said that inasmuch as It had been insinuated that he was feigning sickness, and Dr. Jameson having ascertained his condition, he would like to have him make a statement. In response to the request Dr. Jameson said that he visited Munico and also conversed with his physician, and that there could be no doubt of hisrickness. He stated, furtheimore, that he was not yet well, and that he only came at his (Jameson's) request. The Doctor has had a severe sore throat and there can be but one opinion about the matter. Mr. By field then read the following . REPLY TO M'INTIBE: In the matter of the investigation of Thomas Mclntire, John E. Fawkner, for reply to the charges made against him by Thomas Mclntire, says to all charges of conspiracy against said Mclntire, between him and Wm. French or any other person, be unqualifiedly denies the same, and demands of the accused proof of such conspiracy, that the charges in said answer against him of subornation of perjury in procuring the affidavit upon which the charges against said Mclntire are based, is wholly and maliciously untrue, and challenges said Mclntire to investigate the same before tbe board. If the charges are true he is clearly guilty ot the violation of a penal statute ol the state ol Indiana; and he demands that the said Mclntire presents tbe same before a court that has competent jurisdiction to inflict the penalty ior the subornation of perjury: that the counter affidavits tiled with the answer of tbe said Mclntire, herein, have been procured by fraudulent and unfair nv ans, and that the said Thomas Mclntire, by his influence and the influence of those working in his interest and by threats, false promises and other unfair means, procured said mutes to give said counter affidavit; and said Fawkner says that he expects to show fully by evidence before the board, the lacts and circumstances under which said counter-affidavits were obtained. Dye, fc Harris, By field fe Howe, attorneys. Mr. By fie Id then said: A motion was made yesterday by the coua-el for the dsfenso ia the case, that Dr. James be required to furnish them with any telegrams or letters that be may have received from Philip Kennedy, in reference to matters growing out of this investigation. We suggest cow to the board that we also desire that Dr. James present for our benefit any letters he may have received for the last two or three months from Mclntire, or any other persons, ia reference to the charge?, or employing counsel for the prosecution ot Fawkner upon the indict meet charging him with having procored medicine to produce AN ABORTION ON IDA FAWKNER. Mr. Jameson It is the opinion of the board, as yesterday expressed to counsel, that matters of this kind are not pertinent subjects for an investigation, and therefore ruled things of this kind entirely out. Mr. By field I didn't so understand the ruling. I understood it tbe contrary. We thought that the order would be served on Dr. James. Dr. Jameson admitted that such a motion was made, but denied that there had been any action upon it. Mr. By field The motion was made, and we conceded it. There was no objection, and it was taken by consent. Dr. Jamtson We understand that Dr. James is ready r-o present anything that he has got,but we can not take cognizance of it. Mr. By held: If any or these letters and telegrams are presented we desire all of them. I will also pay now that we would like the records of tbe board of trustees of the Deaf and Dumb Asylum for the last year produced ceiore tne Doard to-morrow mora inz. Dr. Jameson The secretary, will Bee that they are brought here and kept hare. It was agreed upon and announced by the chairman that on account of the delicate condition of Dr. James's health, the board would only sit four hours per day, from 10 to 12 a. h. and from 2 to 4 p. m. A subpsena was issued for Miss Alice Perkins, 830 North Meridian street, and then the prosecution put MISS EMMA PERKINS ON TUB STAND. She Is a young lady of elegant address, and was neatly attired. Upon taking tbe stand she seemed somewhat abashed. As the clerk administered the oath her lips were firmly compressed, but when he had -concluded se responded with a very audi ble affirmative. She was examined in chief by Mr. Dye, and testified that she resided at tbe Dear and Domo institution, and had been there for nearly four years four years In September. Last Sabbath morning she bad a conversation with Mr. Mclutire, in the presence of Mrs. Burdick, tbe Jaousekeeoer. Iam acquainted with Ezra O. Valentine, and have been since he came Into tbe institution, I think In September, 1873. He ia a teacher in the institution. Do not know what classes he teaches. He ia m single man Iii private, or bed room, is on the third floor. It is located off the hill, and the door ot the room is not visible from the dispensary. You can set the windows of the room from one of tbe sick rooms. There are four tick rooms on an elevation of a few feet. There are three from which you can not see Valentine's room and one from which you can. Can not see the door of the room from either. From the window of the sick rrom you can nee into the room. The sowing room is locsted on tbe first floor and thin j.-. oa the tbird floor, two swrie abjve. For tbe last lour years I have bad , CHAROB CT THB SEWING ROOM, od also had charge of seeing to tbe locking of the dormitories. I was engaged In tbe ewiDg room three hours,from2until5in tbe

afternoon. From seventy to eignty persons

were engaged In thst room aoout tne spring ot 1S71. I think Ida t awicner was them, and was. since I have Deen in tne ustitution, living there when I went there. She slept in the dormitory; there were from twentv-nve to thirty Inmates in that room. Thev had separate drawers and wardrobes for their clothing. She slept there for thlast two vears I had charge. I don't know whether she had or not before. As to tbe location of tbe room betöre alluded to, there is one hall runnlrg north and south, and one running east and west, that is, they cross. Valentine's room was on tbe hall running east and west. The sick room is on the same floor, and three or lour steps led up into tbe corridor. The dispensary was right across. I don't remember who the inmates of tbe dispensary were in 1874. One ot tbe nurses last spring or June a year ago was my sister, Alice Perkins, who "lives here now. Mrs. Deborah I LIU CI I 1IN JJO uvait - - know where she is now. She left last June. She has been there since i was. &inee sne has been gone I don't know of anybody having correspondence with her. She was from the city here, but I don't know where she went to. I think she lived on Washington street. I do not know of her having any kindred here. She had an acquaintance, Mrs. Itil er. I don't know any other person with whom she was acquainted in tbe city. She was a mat r led woman when Bne came here, dui x do not know her husband's name. He was here when she entered the institution, and got back before she went away. I don't know what business he was engaged in, nor do I know bow long he remained when he came back", and I do not know where her husband came trom when he came back. She didn't belong to any church. I TALKED A GREAT DEAL ABOUT IDA FAWK NER with Mrs. Donnell, during the time she was head nurse, in the spring of 1S74. I don't know that there were any others' present at such conversations. I don't know of any other nurses but ber and my sister, at that time. I recollect having a conversation with my sister Alice, witn reference to Ida Fawkner, before the vacation of 1874. I don't think Mrs. Donnell was present. I don't remember of having bad a conversation with the matron, Miss Taylor, as I so frequently talked about the girls that I can't recollect. Q. by Mr. Dye: Will you tell the board what you told Miss Julia Taylor, that Miss Donneil told you with reference to Ida Fawkner's going into tbe room ot Valentine in the spring of 1871? General Harrison ob jected, observing that be did not know by what rules of eyidpnce the board was to he governed, but euch a question would be intolerable!!! any ordinary investigation. In reply Mr. Dye remarked that if the fe male pupils of a state institution visited the b8d rooms of male teachers, it is a tact that should be known. It is a fact that affects the management of the ' institution. If it is false, that fact would appear, and there need be no apprehension by the management as to the re u It or an inquiry into it. Or course, if it is not a fact it can't be shown. If It is true thaf. euch a state of lacts exists in the institution, it Bhould be shown whether MRS. DONNELL COULD BE PRODCCED or not. Sho shall be introduced if her place of residence can be ascertained, and it will be strange if she can't be found somewhere on the conti nent. Gen. Harrison thought the only tendency of the testimony would be to show that Mclbtyie had neglected to look alter these things. Mr. Byfield regarded the investigation as being one into the man 8 ge raunt ot tbe institution. It things bave gone wrong, Mr. Mclntire, as the head of the institution, could not shield himself trom the consequences thereof. The rules that govern the admission of evi dence in tbe courts can't be adopted in this case. Everything tending to show misman agement is proper to be admitted. Mr. Jameson, chairman ot the board, said they bad not yet fully made up their minds upon this and similar questions that might arise, it seems to a majority of tue board that the question is not competent as giving the investigation too wide a scope. We would like to take it under advisement. To this arrangement counsel absented, aod the interrogation of w.tness was resumed, she responding in substance as follows: The only ladies iu the institution with whom I remember having talked about Ida Fawkner's conduct, prior to the summer vacation ot 1874, was my sister, Miss Taylor and Mrs. Donnell. Ida almost always stayed in tbe sewing room until 5 o'clock in tbe afternoon during tbe last two years she was there. Sometimes she got out before five o'clock. I scolded her lor it, for she carried tbe keys and took charge of sweeping the sewing room after five o'clock, having three other girls to do it. I did not know where she went. She was absent several times in the fall of 1874. I think I reported her absence to the matron once. I don't know what time she returned. She bad my keys but returned them to another girl if I was not there when s be locked up. Sometimes I would see ber when she would return, but not always. never noticed about her changing her cloth ing, when she leit on such occasions. I bad her searched for the eveaing I complained to the matron. I had her bunted lor through the institrtjon. I don't remember what girl I sent. Tbe matron afterward told me that she (Ida) was in the library with her uncle I don't remember the date. I SENT SEVERAL QIBL8 AFTER HER that time ehe was absent, three of them girls from the sewing aoom. It was the time I communicated the tact ot her absence to Miss Taylor, and Just bef.re vacation. I don't remember whether Ida came to supper that night or not. It was in the evening nearly six o'clock, it was dark I noticed. 1 saw Ida Fawkner that evening the search was made betöre she went out, just a few minutes before, Ida was not absent before 5 o'clock that I can remember. I only remember of having her searched for that once, though I recol lect ot her being absent oftener. I don't re member that anybody found ber as tbe result ot that search. I don't know where Valentine was during that time. I don't remember of his coming to supper that night. I do not remember of Ida coming to supper with tbe other girls on that occasion. I don't recollect very many occasions when she was absent from the table, though I didn't take any particular notice, and remember several occasions when Bbe was absent trom her duties in the sewing-room. I never noticed wbetner Valentine was absent when she was. I did not notice wheth er she ate any supper upon that evening. I saw her go to his room; I could not see her go In, but I heard her go towards tbe door, and I heard a knock at his door, and I beard tbe door open and she disappeared; I could sot S9e her go into tbe room trom where I was. This was In No vember of last year, in the evening, after 5 o'clock; I don't know just how many minutes. The way I came to see her on that occasion I went to the sick room, and I saw ber as I was standing in the dispensary, in tbe middle of the floor; t bat is, I saw her go towards his room just got a glimpse of her, but I recognized ber so as to be CERTAIN AS TO HER IDENTITY. I went right back and I don't know how long she rerxuinad in the room. I didn't take enough notice ol tbe room to see if it was lighted. Taere U an inside window, but It wasn't vläible from where I stood;

though you can see from the corridor

window I didn't take any notice of that window. I don't know whether tbe blind was down or not. It was not dark enough for s light, as it was in November. It was during the week, for it was a sewing day, and we didn't sew on Saturday alternoon. She left that afternoon betöre the sweeping was done, and it was a part ol ber duty to superintend that. In tbe spring of 1S71 I saw Ida Fawkner taking from a phial about as long as my finger and about an inch wide something which she said was lor pimples on her face. She poured it into an ordinary plated spoon, and was taking it one night betöre soe retired. I asked her what it was. She told me it was medicine for pimples. She said her aunt gave it to Ler, and though ehe didn't say so I understood ber to refer to an aunt in this city. She bad some pimples visible on ber face, but I told her I did not believe ate was taking it for that. I had no other conversation with her about the medicine. I reported the fact to tbe matron once, just before vacation. Sho seemed to be in perfect health, aDd she never complained to me. I don't remember that she bad any sickness during the month of June, 1S74. I never saw her taking medicine but that once. I was examined by a committee in the institution once, but cot upon this subject. was examined in regard to Mclntire'a character or improper action on the part of any male teacher, and I never did, nor I never did in regard to Mr. Mclntire. I was not before tbe grand jury. Sunday a week ago Mr. Mclntire told me that I was to be a witness for tbe prosecution, and that is all be told me about it. lie did not question me about that testimony. lie only informed me of that which I did not know myself. CROSS-EXAMINED BT OKN. HARRISON. I had charge of the dormitory when the girls retired. After they are discharged from the Bewing room until they hare retired at night, I have no charge of them at all. When I left the sewing room I lelt four girls to clean it and Ida to superintend it. She carried the keys and saw that the windows were closed, and returned tbe keys to me. When she was through I went to my own room. On the occasion when I bad the girls looking for her it was to see it she had performed her duty. I went to tbe matron and asked her if ehe knew where Ida was. Afterwards, I don't know how many days, she told me that Ida was in the library with her uncle. The library is a public place. I didn't search that place st all. She didn't say what uncle. It U an unusual thing for the girls to be absent from supper, unless they are sick. I never noticed her being absent as any time. Tho teachers are absent very often at meal time. The tables are in tho same room. Duriug the last two years Ida's place at the table has been very near to mine. There was about 130 pupils there. There are more male than female pupils. I have no recollection of Ida having been s.-1m: any time betord last summer's vacation. I dou't know whether there ia any u)Ld.i';,l record kept of all those who are sick. 1 don't remember ot Ida's having been excused from tbe sewiog room on account of sickness. I eaw her taking medicine but once and that was in the spring, before June, 1S74; there were some FEW PIMFLES ON HER FACE then. The medicine was of a dark red color, (phial already described). I saw hor taking the medicine before the light was put out. I would be in the bed room about ten minutes. I would see that they were put in their places and lock the doors. You can't see Valen tine's door from the dispensary ; could only see within about lour or five ieet ot Valen Hue's door; should think I could not setter when she would rap on the door. I did not continue to look: iu that direction, but turned away to go down the ball again. I laid my piece ot work down on tb.9 table in tbe dispensary betöre 1 went down there, I bad worlt in my bands. There was no oue else in there. I went ia thereto take in some work; it was work for some boy who was s'ek. Tbe work for tbe sick room is done in tbe sick room, I was facing tbe hll when I saw her first. I noticed her cornice, i she turned to go into the hall. I beard her knock, I beard the dour open and shut. It shut at once. I then laid the work down and went back to my room, and that took me past Valentine's room. 1 could not see Ida at the time ot the knocking on tbe door. I was looking in another direction then. I saw no more ot her that eveninsr. I might bave stood there five minutes, as I was waiting for the nurse to come. During that tirre I was standing at the table where I laid that work dowa. I mentioned this to Mclntire tbe first time thai I was notified as a witness. I gave my testimony verbally when I was examin' d at the Asylum, don't know whether it was written down. Re-direct examination by Mr. Dye. -I told the matron about it once, it was last year. She said he never saw her go there. When search was made lor Ida 1 didn't go to tbe library to find her, and I don't know whether anybody else did. When I reported Ida's ab sence to Miss Taylor she said she did not know where she was, and that I bad better t-end the girls to look for her. I sent them but never beard that they found her. I never noticed the other girl being absent, and I only uotlced Ida's absence because she carried the keys and I depended on her to lock tbe door. Others may have been absent; I don't recollect. Upon being redirectly examined, tbe witness made to new revelations. She was excused. MISS ALICE PERKINS WAS CALLED. She was present and responded promptly. She is a young lady of prepossessing appearance,and, like her sister, looked sadly out ot place in such an atmosphere. She seemed to take tbe stand with reluctance.yetdeterm ined to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, as admonished by tbe clerk who administered tbe oath. She testified as follows: Resides in the family ot Robert Evans, 830 North Meridian street, this city, is a sister of Miss Emma Perkens, the last witcees. She said she had lived in tbe Deaf and Dumb institution, going there In October and remaining there until tbe close of the school; had charge of tbe sick. Mrs. Donnell, I don't know ber husband's name, was in the institution when I got there; she left there a while after I did alter school. I do not know where she is now; have not heard from her since she left the Institution; don't know where she went to; Mrs. Riley was acquainted with her but I don't know where she lives; she was tbe only lady I knew to visit her. I didn't know any one else in the sick room but Mrs. Donnell. There was a corridor between Valentine's room and the dispensary. It was located on the south side of the sick room. We could see down the ball from the sick room. We could see any person coming near the door way, but not into it. We could see tbe door open and close. I bad a talk with Mrs. Donnell while she was in the dispensary with reference to Ida Fawkner. I told my sister about that conversation. I saw Ida Fawkner COMINO FROM MR. VALENTINE'S . BED ROOM, bat did not see her 'go in. I saw her coming from bis room twice; don't remem ber how near together these times were. I don't remember how long before vacation it was the first time; could not

tell tbe month or the time of the rear it was. I think it was in ths spring. Nobody

was present the first time. It was after sewlDg hour, but I don't know Just how long. It was between sewing hour and supper, and must bave been between 5 and 6 o'clock. When she come from there that time she came down the hall. I could not say how long I bad be-en in the position I occupied when I saw ber coming from that room door, I bad been sitting in tbe dispensary a good while when I saw Ida coming from the door. When I saw her she turned and looked at me and then she walked on slowly, I suppose the same as any one else. I don't remember where Mrs. Donnell was that evening when I saw Ida. It was not dark yet; I could not see the window from tbe dispensary; it was visible only trom the boys's side, that is, the window that opens into Valentine's room. I didn't see whether the blind was clo-ed or not. On the last occasion Mrs. Donnell was there. Q. What did Mrs. Donnell say to you on tbe last occasion? The defense objected, the counsel argued tbe question aud tbe board took it under advisement. The witness continued: I continued to keep that position after Mrs. Donnell made that remark tome, because I was sewing. I had been there an hour and a half when I saw Id coming out from tbe door. I didn't see her when she went in there. There was no ether way to get into aientine's room except oy this door. Mrs. Donnell was at one time alter she tnadethat remark ia a position to observe whether the l nima in v aienunos window waa ud or aown. ?ne saw it cicseo, out could not see who did lt. I never saw Ida take medicine in June, 1874. I did not know of her being sick while I was there. I never was examined nofore an investigating committee or a granu jury. Here the board adjourned. Dr. James showing signs of distress, counsel courteously agreeing to adjourn until 10 o'clock today. THE MUTE WITNESS. . . ... ... -. MISS ROBINSON STILL, ON THE STAND. "WJiat She Knows as the Confidante of Ida Fawkner. LEGAL SIIARPSnOOTING. THIRD DAY'S PROCEEDINGS IN THE INVESTIGATION INTO THE ALLEOED MISMANAGEMENT OF 1HE INDIANA KTATB DEAF AND DUMB ASTLUM SHARP SKIRMISHING AMONG LEADING LAWTEHS IN THE CASE WHAT MISS R'BINSON SAW AT THE INSTITUTION HER DIRECT EXAMINATION CONCLUDED AND THE CROSS BEGAN. The third day's investigation Into the charges against the management of the Deaf and Dumb Asylum, prefer .ed by John K. Fawkner, opened at 10 o'clock yesterday in the Hall of Representatives. There was a marked Increase In the number of spectators over previous day. On the direct examination the counsel experienced great difficulty iu framing questions so that witnesses could compreheud tht-m and . at the same time avoid making them Improper in a legal light. Mr Dye conducted this delicate duty in such a masterly manner that the counsel on the oth side felt constrained to be captious, and endeavored to break the force of the revt-lations being made, by criticisms that Mr. Dye could but regard as offensively personal. The resu.t was that the gentlemen Indulged In some sparring not down la the programme. The process of taking tbe testimony of mutes la not only beset with difficulties of the character above alluded to, but Is tedious in the extreme. Questions have tobe put in writlag.arjd as such witnesses cannot comprehend the full Import of any except the most common words, and shortest sentences, and as they are also apt to make indirect responses, many questions have to be put in some cases to get at a proper answer. So almost both sessions of tbe board ye terday were consumed iu completing the direct examination of Miss Robinson. As she is a mute Cf more than ordinary Intelligence, and Inasmuch as there iü a possibility of the great majority of them being called into the case before its close, It Is apparent that th6 Investigation will be a long and weary one, extending far into the summer. If this conclusion Is correct, the participants will suffer seriously, as the ball was very hot yesterday, and woolen goods a burden . THB PROCEEDINGS were begun promptly at 10 o'clock. All the par ties were In their places. Secretary Brown read the minutes of the preceedlDg meeting and then Dr. James of tbe board submitted the following reasons for dissenting from the decision or a majority of the board in tbe matter of Mrs, Donnell's revelation to Miss Emma Perkins, In relation to Ida rawkner: My reasoos for dissenting from a majority of the board in its ruling in regard to what Mrs. Donnell had toll Miss Perkins about Ida Fawkner going into the room of Valentine in the spring of 1874, are: That this board does not exercise the functions o a court, nor can it be governed in its rulings by the technicalities governing courts of law. We are simply a board of state officers investigating chrges preferred of mismanagement and improper conduct of the managing officer aid his subordinate in charge of a public institution, and to my judgment any communications made between the officers concerning the management of the sme should be admitted for the purpose of subserving the Interests ot the board in ai riving at a correct information necessary for their decision" The letter was ordered spread of record. Then General Harrison iu beb,alf ol the accused moved the board that Mr. John E. Fawkner be required to produce before the board all the letters and correspondence of every character thnt passed between hiru and Miss Ida Fawkner after she left the Asylum. To this the counsel for the prosecution absented. EXAMINATION OF MISS ROBINSON RESUMED. The following testimony is an accurate copy of that reduce 1 to writing by counsel and witness: Q. State if this letter now before you having handed.witness a letter dated Feb. 15, li7i,1' is the one you stated on yesterday you wrote to Ida's aunt at her request. Deaf and Dumb Institution, Indianapolis, Feb. Id, 1S75. Mrs. Fawkner: Dear Friend Your niece Ida has been very sick for the past week, and as a friend of hers, I thought I bad netter write and let jou know of her illness. Hue may not recover, therefore if it is your wish, come out and see her, as she has said she would like to see yon. Alice M. Robinson. (J. State if you everBaw the paper written In cypher and uow shown you; IX so, when you first saw it? A. 1 do not understand what you mean. Q. Did you ever see the paper before yea? A. Yes, sir. t. Winn did you Bee that paper the first time? A. List year. Q. Uow long after the time It boars date was It that you first saw it? A. About 13tn or Uth of February. Q. Did " ou see It about the llih of February, 1374 f A, Yes, sir. Q,. Who showed it to you? A.IdaK. Fawkner. II. Did you read It when she showed it to you? A. Ys,iir (i,. Did you make a copy of It? A. I think not. Ci. What kind of writing Is it written In? Can you read those letters? a. J do not know. (. Will you write what they mean? Make a copy of it in plain English T a. Yes, 6ir. After examining letters minutely. Indianapolis, Feb. U, 1871. I can read those letters some. (. Can you tell by looking at that note who wr.telt? A. Y'e, sir. t. How cn yen tell who wrote It? A. G. Ü Valentine.

Q. How do you know who wrote it?

a. iua snowed it to me. W jvuose Damedo the letters spell that are A. i do not understand wbat you mean, iieneral Harrison, aa rounn ,1 for rra I J Vol entlne,sald that to horten the examination, he admitted that .it was a letter sent brtzra (i. aieauneto lüarawkner aud that tbe trans l"'n oa tne nack or it is correct. The tranala tion is as follows: Indianapolis, Feb. li. 1874. Miss Ida K. Fawkner, Dear Madam : f .1 . w . a ..... -.- iuucu pi-uea ana highly nattered on jec-lpt oi your excellent valentine: many thanks to jou lor thus so kindly remembering ujc. niiuuiBu gjou TUüfH,i remain yours, r.. li. VALENTINE. oenerai uamson as counsel for Valentine, here admitted that the paper weight produced was the one given by Ida K. Fawkner to Ezra i. alentlne,on December 2a, 871, nsaChristCJ. IXj j ou know whether Ida K. Fawkner was in the habit of golrg to K.U. Valentine's private room ? A. Yes, sir. i Did you ever see her go into his room? A. s. sir. Q. When did you see her go Into his room the uxaii timer a. Last winter. 4. wnat time last winter; can you tell the DUlDlQT A. I di not know the month . li. Was It befoie or after Christmas? A. 1 do not remember. Q. What time of day was it? A. In the ever lng. i About bow late in the evening? a. About a Utile while. ti. as it before or after supper? A. I think it WSJ hefr.rA mniu.r 4. Where was you when you saw her go Into A I went un RtA.tr nf th a tvnvf - atAn ni looked at Ida while she was walking in the hall. She entered into Valentine's room. y. Were you watching Ida at tne time rou saw her go into Valentine's room ? rt.. ie,Bir. i. How did yon come to watch ber? a. i inougnt i did not believe her going into bis room. ei- Did Mr. Valentine se9 you watching at that tlrue? A. No. sir . .-'d Mr. Valentine see you when Ida went A. Ye, sir. vi- wnatdidilr. Valentine do when he saw you i opened the door and Ida went Into his ruoui. Q, via you see Mr. Valentine do anything View . A. No, sir. . nowiongaia Ida stay in the room that time? A. About half an hour. Q. When she went In who closed the door? LEGAL feHARP-SHOOriNQ. Gen. Harrison said it seemed to him that the tendency of the Interrogatories was leadinz. and all the more so. the character! nf A mute witness, considered. Mr. Dye I don't want to ask questions which can be considered objectionable. I shall endeavor to SO frame mv Questions ttiftr tho gentleman can not reasonably object to them. What I want to eet at Is what this -iin.su knows. I don't know. We onlv want fo vt at the truth. I wiU take sniremtinnii kini tmm the gentleman. Gen. HarrlKon I will undertake to fortifi th suggestions I may make. Many of these ouestiotiS approaching this point have been put by Mr. Dye just that way. He is a skillful examiner, and must know what is leading. Mr. Dye I have submitted to your objection, but I shall not submit to your criticism : I know my rights. t-t-n. Harrison I have stated my objections to the board, what the gentleman will submit to remains 'o be seen. I have ha l a loug intercourse with the gentleman and I have never be-n Intimidated y t. Mr. Dye All 1 want is what is Tight and fair in this case, and there Is no necessity for such remarks. 1 had been endeavoring to avoid a controversy. , Gen. Harrison If the gentleman would only do that, I know his acquaintance with the rules of legal evidence Is sufficient to Inform him that that form of the question was leading. I don't want anything in tbU Investigation not required by the rules of lalrness, of evidence and good common-sense. If you want a truthful and unbiased answer to the question, you would not ask tbequesiion that way. Mr. Dye if it please the board, I ask questions that I think proper, if not, 1 concede an objection at once; 1 have done so during this investigat'on, and want to keep on in tnat coarse. This gentlenan comes here and talks about fair minded men. He is J ust as fair minded a man as any other, and not any more si. I concede that he is as lair as any other person in the case. But the question is proper to ask. I stand by it, and the board may determine whether it Is proper or not. 1 General Harrison: Will Mr. Dye say, as a lawyer, that that form of question U legal, in view of that which has preceded it? Mr. Dy I say to this board that I ask what I believe to be legal Questions, und I DON'T I'ROPOSB TO BE INTERROGATED by the gentleman in that 6tyle. Uen. Harrison Nothirfg had been said by the witness about the door being open or closed. Mr. Byfield The question ia who closed the door. If it was not shot by some one it was not shut at all. If It was not shut by any person it certainly was open. Tbe question goes right to the witness. Gen Harrison Is not that question full of sug gestlons that the door was shut by some one? The chairman (DrJamfsonV It would be verv agreeable to tbe boaid if the gentlemen would treat each other wiih the strictest propriety in an inese matters, i dislike to see gentlemen hav Imnhlant this Irii-i Aa fsttlilu mnictfAr mutes are as easily led as chl.dren. Now, if tbe gentlemen choose, they may call in some lawyer to decide whether the question at If sue is one proper to 09 put. Mr. Dye it didn't cecur to me to be very material, and the only trouble waa tbe manner in which tbe gentleman put ms oujt-ruoD. x wnDv 0 get. along pleasantly. out iLe genuemau maae wnai 1 thought was an unkind attack upon me. I don't bee why he had to take advantage of the objection to ln&ult me. Gen. Harrison There was no Insult about it We UifTred about the propriety of a question, du 1 pern 9 ps mat is not 10 De wondered at. The question was then permitted, the defence aecunirg 10 raaxe a formal objection, the board not interfering and the prosecution insisting upon tu point. THE RESULT. 4 . Did you see whether the door was closed when Ida went in? A I saw the door was closed when she went in. (J. Did you see who closed the door? A. I did not see who closed the door. i. State whether or not you had any conversation with Ida on that evening before you saw her go into Mr. Valentine's room? Do not state wnai tne conversation was. A- Wbat does conversation mean? Q. Any talk with Ida. A. I do not know what von mean. Q,. Before you saw Id go into Valentine's room ain sne taiK 10 your A I do not remember. Q. Did you ever see her go Into his room after saat7 A. No. sir t. Did you ever see her go toward the door of ms room at any other time? A. Yes sir. Q. When was that? A. 1 do not know. Q. Was It before or after the time you saw her ku intO Iiis room 7 A. I do not know. Q. Where was you when you saw Ida going towaruiine oooroi v aieune s room ? ,.A- ? wnl o to stand in the hall near MissTay'or's door, and she went towards the door of Mr. valentine room. ANOTHEB SQUABBLE. T e defense called attention to the above answer aVer it had been taken, and asked the prosecution If it was competent. Mr. Dye That is not for meto determine. If you think not, state your objection. I will not be placed In such aa attitude. Genera Harrison I don't want to be impertinent. I will r-fer tbe whole ma'.ter to you. Mr. Dye: 1 Insist that 1 shall not be placed in such an attitude. I never made any greater effort to avoid putting ques'lonK.lmproperly, ior I felt that it was a duty to this bo rd. 1 have not only been careful but yieldicg. Whether 1 bave experienced the same sort of teiurn is tot a matter for me to state. If the gentlemen want the question out, they can have It so, if theyfwill treat us ainniy. Gen. Harrison I have b?en trying tobe pleasant. Mr. l ye seeis to be in a complaining 1 lrit. 1 m fure we have sat here and listened to a goo ) many 'hints that are otJectiODable Mr Byfield 1 1 ink that question was com petent and admheible, but 1 think I can make

a suggestion that will obviate anything that m.D Itnean8wer don,t alt you. object and let the board puss upon It, and if it is not admissible let it be stricken out. 1 . JHChaimanTTbe board nt being competent to Jndge referred it to Mr. Dve. i-w ÄÄtTÄot iii? to lns vl&ce la ÜlAi fawhIedtom'eOQ haVe lhUht 11 wriVff-"lie8?nt,eman has been Insulting to that I f -iv? Dd 1 want Llm " undeund nGote'?L"arl30n-1 bave BOt too- Now, let ns get along in some ort of good t?mper. Mr. Dye iMms to be unnecearllV fretful i t am wiling to admit that Mr.ÄJons have tt!b1,Le.ba not bwn question that I S:-;BobJÄtowhteh "e gentleman The Cnalrman-Thls is consuming time. Mr I'ye knows when Questions

"Polite matters very much. .iJ6Tibre, u QOwy that I can see out l- "i ior ue Doard ' these questions. Mr. Byfield ITnlesd ti, 1. to determine shailinsist that the answer i hall remaia In the onjec'.ion we subjecTanTson0thlng fUrtber -w th THE ANSWER WAS ADMITTED. Q, Where is Miss Taylor's rcom ? o TJ?i?J Story at Peaf nd Damb Asylum. w&ÄÄ ISy? Mr Valentine's door f:ora A. No 6ir. iP10 y? wnere Ida went to the time rou saw her going toward Valentines door ? h-it'i HMtL5B towr Valentine's door, 0. Did you see her afterwards that evening? a. 1 es, sir. i. Where did you see her when you saw her af . erward that evening? ' A. I do not know. Q How long was it after yon saw t- r coin toward Mr. alentlne's rcom before you saw he tne nett time? A. I do not know. i. Was it before or after supper that rou saw her going toward Mr. Valentin door? A. I think It was before supper. 4. How far from the door of Mr. Valentine's hfs rxTra? ' rU HaW herCiDK towards A. I do not know. wiiH5!00 Pointont on the map where you ww standing when you mw Ida going towardsMr. aleniiues room? Mark on tÜis map fti.Pre8enUnK mP to witness) witn a pencil where you was standing when vou saw her going towards Valentine's room, (the witness trok the ner.c'l mil in a f,- tJ..,. shed thefollovrlpg:) x X 3 to I JOOp 9 X re O D 3 irii c Ho r F St b s B U. Gould vou see amunn th AmC. rih.k.u from where you stood towards Mr. Valentine's room? A. Yes, sir. Q. How did you come to stand there? A. 1 do not understand. 0 Mark on amap Jmt where Ida was when you saw her goii.g towards Valentine's door that time. Witness aealn inntr Lh.un.ii .,. produced the following; loop SB a & - B ioop - x rrn J . How do you know Ida knocked at the door of Valentine's room? A. ida told me. Gen. Harrison That' not proper but, all rlsht. The Chairman That is hearsay and thould be stricken out, by tbe rules of the board. Q Did yon see Ida go as far as the door of Valentine's room? A. Yes, sir; I saw her going toward the door of Valentine's room, but I did not see her to knock at the door because It was dark In the halL Did you look around the corner of the hall as she passed and went toward Valentine's room? A. Yes. Oen . Harrison objected to this after the answer was in and ANOTHER ARGUMENT ENSUED. Mr. Dye It would seem that I don't know how to ask questions, if 1 ask a complicated question I can't get an answer: if I call her attention to a point so as to be able to have her comprehend, the gentleman objects. Uen. Harrison The witness lias drawn a diagram and now heaka her whether she could see r not from pDiits described in that diagram. Mr. Byfield The witness has given the position it is true, but she has not shown clearly that she could see the door, if we could put questions to these mutes aa to other persons we could arrive at an answer without difficulty, in the way you appear to be driving at, but we can not gat at it in that way it seems. Ihe Chairman: The board overrules that question, unless there Is some other point. Mr. Byfield : Do you strike out the question? If so I would like tobe heard. 1 desire to know if we shall not be allowed to ask leading questions in examining this cltss of witnesses? We hold that it is proper to put such questions in certain cases. The ( halrman The board has already an nounced that leading questions will not 09 entertained. It hss also been stated that mutes are very apt and likely to be led. Mr. Dye -Will the board, then, rule on questions before they are answered, for our protection ? The Chairman That is eminently proper. J think you are right there. General Harrison That is not the question of difference at all. In this Instance my attention was momentarily attracted elsewhere, and was not aware that the question had been asked until after It was answered. It was so obviously leading. THE QUESTION AND ANS WEB WERE KCLED OUT by the board, Mr. Byfield insisting upon an opportunity to convince the members that their rule was wrong. Iben tbe testimony was relumed as follows: Q- You have marked Vinton's name on the map; will you state if that Is correct? A. I was mistaken to mark Vinton's name on tap. (Witness changes name "Vinton" to "Valentine." l. How conld you see Ida K. Fawkner golne towards Valentine' room, when von was stanuing near Miss Taylor's door? A. Ida said she wanted me to stand near Miss Taylor's door and then she went towards Mr. v aienttne room. Q. How near to Miss Taylor's door did vou at nd when you saw Ida going towards ValenA. I do not know. Q, How near to the corner of the hall was von standing when you saw Ida going towards Valentine's room? A. I stood in the hall IwtwMi th stairs n.t Miss Taylor's door. u. How near your seat was Ida s seat at sun-p-r tab'e? a. i do not Know 1 Did vou sit near enough to li't with hor at the tab.e?