Indiana State Sentinel, Volume 24, Number 2, Indianapolis, Marion County, 18 August 1874 — Page 1

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INDIANAPOLIS, TUESDAY, AUGUST 18 1874. VOL. XX1V-KO. 2. WHOLE DUMBER 1.762.

CROSS-EXAMINATION. BEECHER Ar HIS BEST.

Conxmdrums of the Committee. CONGENIAL, SPIRITS IN COUNCIL. 1 HE TARTS OF THE PERFORMERS TILTO TOO MUCH POK MOULTON THE FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS REMINISCENCES OK WOK THE DEPTHS OP DESPONDENCY LIGHTED UP BY -WORM OP WIT CARPENTER'S FOLLIES BKECHER'a AMBITION. 'ew Yoek. Aug. 11. The following isa portion otttie morning cross examination of Mr. tieecher by the ITy mouth Church investigating i-ominittte: . .... Mr Mage. I would like to inquire how Monltou first entered this case, and how ho came to be jour eon f.duut? A. Mr. Houston was a schoolmate and friend of Tilton, and TUton, when bis various complicated troubles came upon hln, in connection with Bo wen wont to Moulton and made htm Ins adviser and helper. That it the way he came into the case. Q. Can you tell as how you came to writethat h-tier of despondency, dated February 5, 1872, to Mr. Moulton? A. I would come hark from a wh3loweek lecturing, and would be perfectly fogged out, and the brst thing on gettlnhome there would be wme confounded development opening on me in thin state of mind. In which I hulno loader any resistaucy or rebound in me. Hoi would work the whole ween out, and that is the way it Happened time and time again. On one of these ooc.isions 1 went to Mr. Moulton 's store. .Moulton has alway treated me with the greatest personal kindness. He never had refused by day or by night to see me or listen tome. I never saw blra outof mood toward me. After the nrst few months be treated me aa If he loved me. On tbts occasion I went down to the store to nee hisi, and bis face M-as cold towar J me. J proposed to walk with him, and he walked with me in surh a way that it seemed to me as though It was Irksome to him to have me walk -with him, and as though he wanted to shake me off. Now anything like that all but kills me. 1 -don't wikIi to poHh myself upon anyoody. To leel that I have pushed myself upon any human beins who does not want rue. is enough to kill me. and to be treated so by him at that time,madeitneera tome as though the end of the world had come. For be was the only man on the globe that I could talk with on the subject. I was hut up to every human being. I could not o to my wife. I cnuld not go to my children. I con Id not ro to my brothers and Risters. 1 could not go to my church. He was the only person to whom 1 could talk, and when I got that rebulT from Mia it seemed as though it would kill me, mid the letter was the product of that mood lulo which I was thrown. Mr.Hace. When was the Interview with the pistol? A. The first interview was at Moulton 'a house. . Teceniber JO, and the next was at my own on the 11 tj 1 ufyon consider the interview at Moulton's house a threnteninn one? I have beard from kome source thai the door was locked. A. That in staled in ray statenie nt. cl iid Til on at that time make any charge Of adultery f A. No, Mr. q. What was Tklr. Mmlton's manner at the time when he di'mand -k! the retraction of Sirs. TUton? Wash tnreaxenlnji? A. I oukl describe lk as being one of exceedinlv intense excitenien . oiv vou HUDuose that you or the community would have h -ard anything of these troubles of Tilton with his family had ue been a successful man? A. I am moral-y certain that tho thing would have ben def per burled than the bottom of the wea If l'iiiou hail gone right on to a prosperous estreer, and be had i-ad the food to which he bad betn accustomed. But Tilton is a m n that starves for tne want ot flat'ey,and no power on Ciod's earlh can over make bim happy when he Is not re oivli g Kme Incense. i. I understand bjrourstatement that yon 'first met Moulton at Tage s studio; Is teat corjvet? A. Id ito ray knowledge of the man from that time. He was bavin his picture painted at the Mime time, and we met there occasionally. X recollect being impressed with the feeling that he wits an acute fellow, and that he had strong litrra-y flutes, as he h-vs. O,. Hart you ever visited his house In asocial way prior to hi call at your house on this business? L Then yon had no Intimate personal relations with him? A. None. i. So that when he came to you he came rather as Til ton's friend than otherwise? A. Altogether. Q. When did yoa come io believe that that relation was becoming one of mutual friendship? ' A. I can not tell yon, but it was some time Afterward. The transaction was made daring be consultation which they held as to bow Bowen should be managed so as ta do, as they said, justice to Tilton. Once or twice he said to me when I told him something, "Henry, that Is the right thing." I recollect that on one occasion C made a confidential statement to him about some matter that they never could have round oat otherwise, and he said (1 don't recollect the words: I only have a recollection of the impression that was made on my raind) that I never should regret putting confidence In him. It sprung from some (statement that 1 bad made, lie gave a token of bis pleasure at ray trust In him as If to encourage, as it were, a full trust, and he sa d that i never should regret having put confidence in him, which 1 shall regret to the day of my death. H. If you used the words, MHe would have been abetter man In my circumstances than 1 nave been," what did you mean by them? a. I do not know. I'm sire. 1 he conversation ran on hypo helically in respect to the betrayal ofafriend in the boor of emergency; in respect to undermining Tilton just ai the time when Bowen a I all the world were le .ving him ; la respeei to a want of ndoilty. There Is one thing tha you are tob-arln mind. A thing that! have ne. er mentioned o any of you. aud that bad vary si ouie Influence upon me. never can foreet a k indues done to me. I Mr. Beecher here told a story of Tilton's going to WashIngteai and having his son Henry appointed Lieutenant in the regular army. tj. tiefe are three letters wrltte-i on rebrnary 7.171. I am. not quite sure whether I under stand yon correctly, in saying that yiu did not see Theodore's letier to Mou ton of that date A. I have n remembrance of it. I only knew that there was an arrangement made ammg ns to brlnz an influence to bear upon F.llzabesh, in conseo ience of ner state of mind. 1 used to aay to bliu Moulton). -1 am a man walking in oivnairHTid full of work, and Theodoreis at loose and doing wha'ever he pleases, and we can come down and talk with you and have counsel. But what human being-has Kiizabeth Tilton to tak with her In her trouble? he is shut up at home, sick a d un be friended, and it Is not nenerom for us to let her g unihough; of and unc&rei for." I was always saying that there ought to b j somebody wno should think of her. (j. In your letter of that date to Moulton this occurs: "Woo id to (Jod, who orders all harts by Ills kind medlMlon. Theodore and Klisabeth and ould be made friend again. Theodore will have the h mle-t task In snch a case." Pre cisely what did yi.u mean? Why that last sen tence? A. It I all a muddle to me, as I don't reell , the precise workiug of mv raind: 1 have no f vivid recoil c lonot the making up of the let ' ter.or the piecie moo-is unoer which I wrote;! can notgrive tb reason o the sentence. k ti- I call your attention to it because the criticism 1 made In cerialn qnarters that it referred to Mr.. ii ton's marital troubles growing out or vouronense. A. Well, out 6ee. Isn't It a golngback to friend shiD? Isn't it tn ' restoration of the family? . o. WbatdoouFkfor? Is it that you three Chould be ma ie fi lends ag i!n? A. Ye. th.it we .-lion d l co-oterate. o And on say tht Theodore will have the hardest task? A. There was a family that by circumstances had been brouKbi totliu-ret ntagon sm, ata time of the most profuud ndversit v. Vhen '111ton had to struggle for his livelihood, for bis Bare, ror nis posiuou, arid for his bouseh-dd eveo'thing pur tothe . he was in a siiuttioii In which be h;tl g ' to exert himself in every way for restore ion In every manner, and the TW'int was m sue snouid co-opera with hlrn as well as with his friends. If she had her sorrows to bear at home, he ha his too- hu, is what I ihlnk 1 likely may have suested those words, bull don't ty ii 1, oecau e I don't remember fll.n belli. JTO'l tnw, WS lmnipnselv hitter iDjalnst Theodore, and fe t that she had been the aggrieved one. I h id not beeo any i hing like so u lüibert-n letter of Ken. 1. von sav. eourso I can never speak with her again wlth-

out his permission, and I don't know that even then It would be best." Why did you say that? A. .Because, either at the time of that letter from Mr. Bowen or In its Immediate vicinity, Mr. Tilton, as I have an Impression now. Bent word by Bowen, though I csd not be an r ofthat, forbidding me ever to enter his bouse again. Q. Nothing else? A. No. 1 frequently Faid I wished I was dead, and Theodore Tilton came and said he wished he was dead, and Mr. Moulton was frequently In a state which be wished be was dead, and Mrs. Moulton said, "1 am living anions friends every one of whom wihes he was dead," or something like that. 1 don't know that it was smarter than that,bnt she put it in a way that was very ludicrous. Kveryoneof ns used to be echoing that wluh. AVe were vexed and plagu'd together, and I used the familiar phrase, "I wish I was dead." i. The outside gossip Is what you referred to In thatllne of contemplated suicide? A. It was not. My general purpose in the matter oi this whole thing was this, and 1 kept It as

amotto otlife, "By patient continuance in wen notto otlife, "By patient continuance in wen ing to put to shame those who falsely accused b. I meant to put down, and preach down, U trouble. Of course, in my dismal moods I dot me, thl felt as though the earth had come to an end Now, in interpreting these social letters, everybody is Irrest ably tempted to suppose that everything I I said was said narrowly In regard to their text, instead or considering the foregoing state of my mind, whereas my uttemnces were largely to be Interpreted by the past as well as bv the present or future. I can not Interpret tneih precisely a I can a note of hand or a check. Aman that is poetical, a man that Is oftentimes extravagant, a man that is subject to moods such as make me what 1 am, can not narrowlv measure his words, and yet from this writing of over four vears, in every conceivable condition in this large correspondence proceeding from a mind speaking in hypothetical moods, and in all manner of states about everyliody and everything out of this msss they have got only these lew equivocal things, which did not refer to me, bu to him and ins whole style of acting. Q. Theodore said he was born for war, and Moulton was probably born for diplomacy. A. Yes. Us managed this matter with Tilton? A. Ye, he lepresented himself always as having all the reins in bis hands, and such power that if the worst should come to the wornt be could compel a settlement. He Intimated to me. time and again, that he had such materials in his hands respecting Theodore, that, as he aald once, "if Theodor does not do as 1 say, I'll grind him to powder." y. Mr. Winslow. The "yearnlns to the futnre," I understand, was to procure tne silence and burial of the scandal? A. No. 1. wasn't, either. It referred to the plans by which Tilton was to get something to do, and do ltland get some praise for It, and be content. Q. The 4-de vices ;''d d that refer to all the plans and arrangements a ad steps that had been tAken? A. Itreferredtothls: If 1 bad been left to manage this matter simply myself. I should bave said j-es or no. That would have been the whole ofit. But, instead ofth.Tt, the matter went Into Moulton's bands, and Moulton is a man that loves intrigue. Q. He had condoned his wife's fault. What did you mean by this? A. Condoned lias a legal meaning and a gen eral meaning. But I use the word as n literary man would use It, not as a lawrer. If I used it la a legal phrase it would have been offense, no fan t. Q. In using the word fault, do you refer to aorue particuiat act of Til on? A. 1 refer to the complaints he made In general In respect to her. You know perfectly well what was the impression conveyed to me from the begininu: to the end, and that was that I bad stolen into his home, and that I had taken ad vantage of the simpl.city ofhl wife to steal her affection to myself and awav from him. Q. And do you mean to say that you nati mat In your mind ben you used the word fault? A. i suppos-1 uia. O. Yon say in the same letter that he hadenjolned upon you most earnestly and solemnly betray his wi.e. in wnat respeciT A. Not to betray this whole ditttcuity into which his household had been ea.sL Consider how It is. I appeal to every sensitive man and culti vated nature in the world, if any. greater evil can befall than to have a woman, a wife and mother made the subject of evil investigation as it res pects her moral character, for no greater barm can betau a woman man to oe laiiea bout from house to house vltu discus sions as to the grade of oflense, and probable nature of offense and cause of Sense and everything about It. Next to stabbing a woman aead, is to talk about her virtue, ud if the public suppose that In order to interpret these letters,! must refer to vulgar, physical, gross indignitv, men mey are living on u plane where 1 do not live. You remeruoer that I was aware that in addition to tne trouble involving my name, Tilton baa also In acts of jealousy accused his wife of criminal Intimacy with several gen'lemenof whom 1 as not one.and hsd asserted in the presence of witnesses that all her children except the first were children of those gentlemen respectively. In his decent moods he was very anxious to have such accusations unknown to the world. The mere rumor of tbem would east an ineffaceable blight upon his children. Nothing would have induced me to make this explanation, but that Tilton has deliberatt-ly chosen to cast a blight of Dreciselv the same kind upon those very child ren by bis subsequent course, and all that la left to me, is the power to speak of bis abomnable accusation, with the scorn which such a horrible fal-ehood deserves. Q. You refer to some points which have al ready been considered for a month. "I have a h trainee feeling on me that 1 am spending my last unday and preaching my last Herman." Do you refer to the same condition of health and mind that you have described? A. I refer to the fact simply. That was my state of mind during this great trouble, although if you w re U collect ail me language 1 nave used at various time', it muni produce an impression that T had wallowed tn a sea of unparalleled distress. I have, had stormy days, and have suffered more from this than probably all other causes in my lif put together: yet. biking the rour years togemer, i t-ave nad more peace and more profound insight Into the wants aud sufferings of men. 8ince I have become acquainted with trouble and despair, I have had au experience in the higher regions of christian life that! worth all the sorrow and suffetlng that I have had to go through to get to It. O. Is it or is It not true that In the coarse of these matters Tilton expressed a strong desire that the secrets or bis ranuiy snouid not be known? A. A ways. At least, that was his mood ex cept when he fell into a strängt mania at times. There were times in which It ws very evident that he perfectly longed to be obliged to bring oat or to have someb dy b in out a scan dalous Mo y on his family that he might have the credit wi Ii the world ol bring so magnani mous as still to stay at home and live with his wife. H. lie eoms a clause m which you express proiuuna connaenc- in Aioimonx nae uy. uoc hat correctly represent your own feelings? A. It dos. Although Moni on was n t 'he man that I should te ect as an ideal man. I thou hi hat in that o e particular of fidelity to friends be was the most remarkable m n I ever met, by the amou t of anxiety he was willing to give uy in amount or nxity ha was willing to encounter, by the do'n. of work which 1 sup pose 1 more agreeable to him than to me. that Is of teeing different partie and or ferreting out stones ana runn rig things back to their source, which I utterly abhor In social relations, and consequently trying to keep me in good heart, and presenting to me the best, sides of Tilton's character, which be never failed to do. When I brought to Mou ton wh it seemed to be the bad and treacherous things I learned of Ti ton, he s.tid, "Don't be lieve a word of such thin s, aud I will make In qulrles," and th next time 1 wuuld see him, he w -old have a plausible explanation of the whole thinir, and I felt asthoUKhltwasnou.se to ttack tilton, that he shed every arrow that was aimed against him. I have said this notonlv in referen e to the impressions be pro duced upon me out until tne ume oi nieouncl I was in an ablllng faith of Mr. Moulton's truth. Until the reply of niton t Bacon's letter I never had a suspicion of hlsgxxi faith and sincerity with which he was dealing with me. After that letter was published and Moulton. on my visiting him In reference to it proposed no counter operation, no documents and no belr, I wss stavgeieu, aud when llltou subsequently pub Ished his s at'ment alter he came to tnis committee, wneu tna'. c tine out 1 neverbeard a word from Moulton. lleievt-ren for me nor vi ited me or did a ihim;. I wnlttd for him to y or do something, lor 1 had s id to Moni ton w it hin the last year, ''As thintrsare cumin, vou never a e coin tomanase Tl ton He is going to ma naze yon." I have said to him once or twice, -M-ulton, Tilton is longer headed thsn yon are. snd he hasoutwt'ted you." 1 have nald to him. "The time is coming in which I see dis inctly you have ot to choose-between Tilton's s'Htement snd mine." He said, "Th -t will n verbe. Bu I ohall stand by you to the death." He sal that to ni in the lst conversation 1 had wlh hlrn. Q. Has Moni ton any sret of yours, in paper. In docununt, or In kooyvktlge, of any act of

yours that yon would not hare eee the light at this hour? A. Not teat I am aware of. H. Have you any doubt? A. I have none. Q. Do you call upon him to prod nee all be has and tell all he knows? Q. I do. 1 do. Mr. Cleveland. Have yon reason In light of the recent disclosures todoubt bis fidelity to you during those four years? A. The Impression made by him dnrlng tho four years of friendship and lldelity whs so strong that my present surprise and indignation do not seem to rub it out. I am In that kind of divided consciousness that 1 was in respect to KHzaueth Tilton, that she was a saint and the the chief of sinners, and Moulton s hold upon ray contldsnce was so great that all that has come out now affect me as a dream. Mr. Winslow. In yonr letter of February 5, you speak of tho possibility of a ruluous defense of you breaking out. How could there be be any ruin- us defense of you? A. A defense of me conducted by ignorant ieople, knowing nothing of the facts, snd compelling this whole aalanche of wind to descend npon the community might have been ruinous. I think now as i then fol:. O.. H would then lie injurious? A. Where you would say injurious, I would

say ruinous. il. You speak of remorse, fear a nd despair. A. I suppose I felt them all. Whether 1 was justified in so feeling is a question. When I Uvea lu Indianapolis, mere was an out lawyer named Calvin Fletcher, a New England man of large brain. He was a Methodist and a christian man. He took a peculiar fancy to me, and he used to come to ee me often, when I was a young minister,and I would see him a great deal. He would mate many admirable suggestions, one of which was that lie never admitted anybody was to blame except the party who tendered the complaint. Kays ho, "I hold myself responsible for having everybody do right by me, and if they do not do right it is because I do notdo my duty." Aud now.aaid he, "in preaching during your life do you take blame upon yourself, aud don't you be scolding your church an i blaming everybody. It Is your business to see that your folks are right. " W ell.it sank down into my heart and became a spring of influence from that day to this. If my prayer meetings do not go right it is my 'aalt. If the people do not come to chnrch lam the one to blame for their not coming. If things go wrong in my family I find the reason in myself, i have foreseen qaarrels in the church, if I bad left them alone they would burst and break out, but acting nnder that advice, and dolnu my own duty, 1 have no dlQlculty In rny churcUQ. An anonymous letter to the committee from a free lover nays that you have a reservation In your philosophy which would enable vou to sav. "I nad no wrong conduct or relations with Mrs. Tilton," having in yonr mind a belief that whatvou arechargeti with doing was rignt. What areyour Ideas on this subject? A. I am not versed in the philosophy and casnistry of free love. 1 stand on the Mew Kngland doctrine, in which I was brought up, that it is best for a man to have one wile, and that be stay by her, and that he do not meddle with his neighbors' wive. I abhor every manifestation of free love doctrine that I've seen in theory, and I abhor every advocate of free love doctrine that I have known. Q. Did you ever know anybody who took hold out seriously who was not mined oy lir A. No sir, provided they were susceptible or ruin. I have had women write to me that if I didn't send them ten dollars they wero ruined, and I wrote in reply that they wero ruined before. Q. Yoa speak about havinx sent Mrs. Tilton a copy of yonr book. Was that an uctof cour tesy espeel.i iy io ner7 A. Iso. 1 eave litem ont to rr lends, w hen one book would come out i wool! give a copy to friend, and so on. 1 have not been a grctt distributor of my own books, only In cases where it would be a real pleasure, and from an intimation that it would be so. 4. Are you clear In your recollection that you never met the woodunus more man tnree times? A. I am perfectly clear, that 1, to speak to them. Q. State the times and places. A.Ouoneoccasiou I was walking with Moulton in the general direction of Tilton s house, when he said that Mrs. Wo dhull would be there. 1 at first hesitated, and be said: "Come in and just see her." I said: "Very well." 1 wentin,and alter sora conversation uown in tus pan or s. went up stairs into this lamous boudoir room. where she sat waiting, and like a spider to a fly, she rushed to me on my entrance aud rcaned out both her hands with the utmost earnest ness, aud said bow rejoiced she was to sea me. I talked with her about five minutes and then went down stairs. My second Interview with ber was on one occasion, wbeu I had been with some 2U or :i gentlemen to look at the warehouse establishment of oodhull & Hobln son. We were on a steamer that had been chartered for the occasion, and when 1 came up Moulton said: "Come with rac to town." lie never told me there was to te any company. Whenl came there l learned that there was to De something in aew loric in tne evening, and that there were to be a number of literary ladles present, among whom was Mrs. woodhu 1. 1 was placed at the head of the table, near Mrs. Moulton 1 think on her left. Mrs. W oodhull was next to me, or else sbo was first and I was next 1 don't remember which At the table she scarcely deigned to speuk to me. l addressed a lew words to ner ror polite ness' sake during dinner, but there was no sort of enthusiasm between ns. My third and last Interview was at Moulton's house Mie bad addressed to me a threatening letter, saying that she wou'd open ail the scandal if I didn i preside at Htein way Halt, and in reply to that Moulton advised that instead of answering be. letter. I should see her and say without witnesses what Iliad to say. 8be brought wlih ber her great subject. It was in type, and my Fol icy was to let her talk and say little, which did. and she went on saying, "You know you believe so . and so," and I said noihiug nd so Oil, from point to point. until I tald at last: "Mrs. Wxxthull, I don't anderstand your views; 1 bave never road them i thoroughly. As far as I do understand them, I ! do rot-bei eve In tbem, and "though 1 am In favor of full dscussio , et presiding at meetings I seldom do for anybody, and I shall not do it for you, becau'e I am not in sympathy with your movement. o. Has Mrs. w o dhull any letters of yoara in he pos-esslon? A. t wo, i suppose, nnicss sue nas sola tbem. l. UiOQ what subjects? A. he enclosed a letter to me with one from my sister, Mrs. Isabella Hooker, inviting me to be pre-e it at a suffrage convention at Washington To that letter I replied briefly in the u-a-ttve, but made a few statements in regard to my ideas ot Women voting. The other letter was just before ber scandalous publication, ttne wrote to me a wniuiug letter, say ing that her reformat o y movements had brought n on her fucU odium that she could not procure lodgings In New York, and that she had been turned out of the Uilsey House, I think, and asking me In a very rUnlhcanl way to interpose my influence or dome ot her relief for her. To that let u-r I rep led very b&lefly, saying tuat I regretted it when an) -bod buffered persecution for the advocacy of their sincere views, but that I must decline Interference. Mr. Clafiln. These are the two letters, ire sig natures of wbioa she showed to Bowen and myself. It was r ported that by these letters you were to b sunk JO.UOU fathoms deep. 1 told Bowen before I went there that I knew of the existence of the letters and that was all they contained Bowen made a jouruey cltar dowu to Connecticut on purpose to go up tbt-re. Mr. Winslow. Did you ever meet her at niton's? A The first time I ever saw ber was at Tilton's. Did yoa ever meet her there any other time? A. Not that I recall. If I saw her I am perfectly sure I would know it. remember her well, on account of the tran cendeut description I had heard of her, and because of Mrs. Hooker's fee Iuks toward ber. Mrs. Hooker regarded her as Joan or Arc would a vision oi tue virgin Mary, and when 1 went to see her It waswuu great ex pec at Ion, saying to m self, "lleie U this woman who is lauded everywhere, aud must be a power to rise o the bead. Mr. Winslow. Cau yoa tell us what became of Mrs. Wood hull's threaten ng letter? A. Mr. Moulton opened it. (i- Now, as to what occurred In your library, and in Tilton's bedchamber. I refer ionccudons In which he said you toiu hed his wife's ankle, and were luuuu wiiti a uusbed lace in (bo bed chamber of hi bouse. A I do emphatically deny that either of these scenes ever occurred. Mr. White. In one part of your statement you say I hat n December, 1870, you beaid of n.uuy Immoralities of Mr. i litou.and that yo 1 beaeved in their existence. In a later part oryourMmemenl jou say that you had been subieuueiiil deceived into a belief ttiat Mr. Tilioii was not in fault in respect to his mora conduct. How do you reconcile these two ttattmeuis? A HA aue when the matter came io me from Bowen, and I rough a visit lo Tilton's laniily, was uudei full perualon of the truth of thee things. One of the very nist things to which

: : Jdoult-m an.Villim had addressed themselves was to disabuse ray mind of this belief concerning Tilton's moral conduct. Tilton alluded to the subject of his own purity with circumstantial and historical statements, and Moulton's conduct specially tened to convince me that all nUegations against Mr. Tilton respecting suet matters were false. U. Did yon admit at MV time to Moulton. or

Tilion, or any other person, that yon had ever had any relations with iln. Elizwhrth lilton, or ever committed any act to of with her or said Any word to her which would be unfit for a christian man to hold, do or sav witfi the wife of his triend or for a father to bold K or say witn nis daughter, or a brother with his sister? Did you ever admit this in any form or la any words? A. Never. Mr. Tracy. Did you ever in fact Vld rtnv snch relationa, do any such act, or utter any such WoruT A."? ever. 9 Mr. Cleveland. In yonr stat?ment vou have alluded to one judgment of j,uw. Have vou furnished any other money to those pertiesf A. 1 have furnished at least S2,uuu besides the ",0C0 i. To whom did you pay that money? 1 A. To Moulton. I H- In various sums? : : A. In various sums, partly In cash and partly In ch'-cksj t. Have you any of those checks? a. I have several. I don't remember how many. tfc. Where are they? A. I have some of them here: one of June 2L llCL drawn on tho Mechanics bank, to the order of Frank Moulton and endorsed in bis hand writing; and o je of My 2s, 1S?J, to the order o F. D. Moulton, and also endorsed In his hand writing. iAfii of these that are marked "for de posit" across the face, have been paid. .. ab neany m you can recollect, now raucn money went Into the hands of Moulton? A. I should say I have paid 87,txi. it. To what nse did you suppose that money was to be appropriated? A. I s ippostxl that It was to hn aPDrobrlated to extricate TUton from his difilcullles in tome way. ti. Yoa did not stop to inquire how or why? A. Moulton sometimes sent me a notesavinr "t wish you. would send your caeck for so much." IJ. Did you usually respond to the demands of Mi. Moulton for money daring those months? A I always did. - tj: Under what circumstances did you come to pay ttn? Sö.üflO in one Bum? Ä. Because it was represented t" me that the whole diificulty could be now settled by that amount of money, wnlch would pnt the affairs oftheUolden Age on a secure footing, sthat they would bs able to go rUht on, and that with the goine on of tbem the safety of Tilton would be assured, and that would be tbe settlement of the whole thing-. It was to save Tilton pecuniarily. . ti- Wero there any documents shown to you by Moulton? What did he show you before vou made the payment? A. it was the result of intimations and general statements, and I finally bald to bim: "I am willing to pay 30,000.' I came to do it In this way: Tnero was a discuslon about that paper. Moulton was constantly advancing money as he said, to help Tilton. The paper was needy. Ono evenloit I was at bis bouse. A'e were alo no together fn the back psrlor and Moultou took out of his pocket a letier from . it was read to me, in which the writer mentioned contributions . which tbe writer had made to Thoodore. I undersi-od ' thai the writer of this letter had given hint some thousands of dollars down in cash, and then taking two time checks or drafts, which as I recollected were ou bluisn paper, altbo gb I am not sure of that. There were iwo checks, each of them amounting to one or two thousnnd dollars more, aud I should think It amounted In all to about six thou sand dollars, although my memory noont quantities and figures is' to be taken wich great allowance. But It produced Iii lmprey ion on lie that tbe writer had given him one Or two thousand dollars In cash down, and as the writer explained in tueletter.lt wa- not conveniont to give the balance in money at the time, but that the writer had drawn time drafts wiiich would be just as useful to him as' money, and Mouiioa k Lipped the taole and said: "Yes, It was." Atterward, when 1 got horn-, and was thinking about it in the morning. Why, sain I, what a foul. I never dreamed what he tneaut. Then I went to him ?nd svd to bin; -I am willing to'maku a cout lb lion, and pu the thiug beyond a controversy." Well, he said somrthing like this: that he bought it would bo the best investment thai ever I made in my life. I then went to the sayings bank aud put a mortgage of on my boUie. i took a check sr hich was given me by the bank's lawyer, aud pnt it into the bank, and on Moulton's suggestion that it would be better lhaa to have a check drawn to his order, I drew the money In live hundred dollar or one thousand dollar bills, 1 have forgotten which. But 1 know that tbey were large, for I carried the roll tn ray hand, and these 1 gave luto his band. KroBi time to time he spoae la most glowing terras, and said that he was feeding It out t j Toeodore, aud be said tnat at tbe time of the first installment he gave Theo-lore J-tOO at once, and that, he sent with it a promissory note for Theodore to slgnf but that Theodore didn't sign It. bat sent it b-ck to blm, saying that bo saw no prospect in the end of paying the loans, and that he could not honorably, therefore, accept them, and refused to sign any note, and Moulton laugheo significantly and said that Tilton subsequently took tbe money without giving any note. Q. Did yoa ever receive any note of security whatever or evidence of debt from Moulton or has there boen any offer to return the money to youf A. Nothing of the kind. It was never expected to be returned by either party. l. Has Moulton said anything to yoa a!xat the money in a comparatively rece t ierlod ? A. About the time of the publication of tbe Bacon letter, I think, I had been glveu to understand that he had offered ö.ouo in gold if lilton would not publish that tetter, and at that stage of affairs Moulton fc-it profoundly that i lium could not come out with a discio-uire or this matter without leaving Moulton in an awkward position, and that he offered J-1,000 in gold if Tilion would not publish that letter. It led to some little conversation about a supply of money, and he said ihal I had bettor give mm my wnoie lortuno than have Tlltoa eo ou in his course. O. That yu bad belter give your whole for tune V Mr. T.? . Yes, rather than have Tilton go ln o this flat. v. was tnai oeioreor aitor ine puo:icatiou oi the Ricon letter? A. 1 can't be certain about that. It was about that time. o. Did .Moultcn ever question you In recard to ihl. matUr, whether you had ever spoken iu that to any oue, or expressed auy anxiety in your miud about. I .? A. lie aid n t many wee is. ago in tne last interview I had wltn him. i. Since - he publication of that Bacon letter? A. Yes; I tbiuk It was the Habba.b djy after the appointment of this coin ail t lee. I preached but oue- on that day, aud on the evening of that day be saw me and .aid to me In a conversation. 'You have never mentioned about that fö,ü O I said yes, I had mentioned it io one or wo persons. 1 mentioned it to Oliver Johnson for one. hecause he was saying something to me one day about wh -t some ol Tilton's friends were saying and I Incidentally mentioned that to him, which he never repeated, I suppose, to anybody. mou. ion saiu: -i win never aumitinai; i snail deny it always.' 4. Have you any objections to staling what Tiltou's friends were saying to '! ver Joliuton and others? What cid Oliver Johnson say lo you? . A. On one occasion he reported to me that among the friends of Tilton he had heard repmacnes made against me, that 1 was neither endeavoring to help Theodore in reputation or in any way, snd the expression was this, that I hud hfjeii the instrument oi his being thrown off i be tr.ck In life, and that I would hut lelnslate bim. I 1 replied in nub.iance tuat so fir as J reputation was co-ceru'd, i not only longed, aud tiled lo do what 1 could for Tilion, but that bis a-soclatlon with Wood bull wss fatal to him, and 1 could not mke any head uaainsl ll.aod with r-gsid lo the other. I saiil to htm hat 1 Ind been wi ling to help blm materially, aud that recently I paid Xj o to him. Q. Did you see and hav a conversation wita liiion ot'ii after I lie pay m tit of the Sj.ikai? A. On the isunoay afternoon following the payment o i ue "f'vui, hm I was going to rhurcti iu the nio.rnli g. I me li' on stnuoiug right opposite the house; be put his & ih thiouxh mine, ai'd was l.i bis most bea"fic mood; while wa kig at u down to cnurcli. tie was talking all the way of g ace, me cy i d peace to me, and at tnat tune i leoll c. thinking that was ver. mollify i g. Mr. t latiiu. Did you at any time, receive the note which the commit' e- bave in ,e idence, as i iioas: "ii w. ö "race, mere,- anu peace. T. T. Mundsy niorning. ' ' A. Yes. iivnt n on Sunday morning, by his wile, who Imd It laid ou my pulpl stand. Mr. Cleveland.. If your niorigaae was tiattd

about May 1, 1S73, the money of course was paid XIam 'Inn aft aw . .

.uiru, jvui mortgage was xuaaeT A. Yes.' sir. I didn t keen Mia mnnv an I went wi'th it d rectly from tbe bank when t drew ltan.1 pat it into Moulton hands, on the OTiaic urtv. . wai Ulli A1CW UUUTSfc . At histu-mse? A. I don't k.ow. CL Did you u wo trouble with Tilton anrin. the latter part o. that month, before the 1st of A. I do not knoVlhe month In which I did not have trouble wl th him. but he made a special outburst at the end of tbe month of May. Ifüi, on account of th e publication of the tripar tite sreenteni, wnicu' ieu io my letter to Moulton of June 1, 1C:1. Here is a letter da ed May 1, iS7i, In which Tilton retersUo some si ory of Carpentsr's about yonr obtaining money. Did you receive that letter? A. I did, sir. Tt was a magnificent humbug. I knew that Tilton kn.w lhat he had been tinkling myxoid m his pockets for months and years, and he wrote that le tter to be published for a sham and a mask. l. What did you understxnd by Carpenter's rela ious to money matters? A. My first knowledge of cn rpenter was that he was putting his nose into this business which did not coi eern him. r That was also Moulton's impression. I uskevl Moulton oue day, "What under the sun Is Carpenter doing around here and meddling with this matter?" He summarily damned lilm, and represented him as a good natured. well meaning busybody. I asked him why he didn't tell hAm distinctly that his p esence was not wanted. He said "Well, he serves ns some useitM purposes. When we bear of things going on In dubs or any pUce n New York, we put Caryenter on the track and he fetches all thernmonraad we use him to find out what we could not (jet oherw se,"and 1 did find that he not only cid that, bat Carpenter was one of those good aatnred men whose philantnrophy exhibited Itself In trying to settle quarrels and difficulties by picking op everything be vould bear said by, for or against a man, and carrying it ta tbe parties where it would do the most harm rmssip ble. He was a kind of Keniat, good natured fool, and in all this matter be baa been a tool more than a helper. II has never once done anything except in the kindest wy, and never oee done anything in tbe whole of this matter from the beginning- to the end that was not a stupid blunder. I made up my mind from the beginning that as I was silent to everybody in this matter, I would lie especially silent to Carpente-. 1 recollect but one ln'ervle with him that bad any particular significance. He came to see me once when the council was in session and oar document was published. There was a phrase introduced Into it that Tilton thought pointed to him, and Tilton that night was in a bonfire of flame, and walked up and down the street with Moulton. Iwaa in at Freeland's, and in comes Carpenter, with his dark and mysterious eyes. He sat down on the sofa. and in a kind of sepulcheral whisper toid rae of ' some matters. Kay I, "That is all nonser.se," that it meant, and and. Carpenter was rejoiced to bear it, and then went oat. On another occasion he cme to me, and in a great glow of benevolence said that there was to be a newspaper established In New ork. and tnat I was to take the editorship of It. and SöOü.tKJO was to be raised almost by the tap of a drum. I was greatly amused.but said to him gravely: "Well. Carpe ter. if I should ever leave the pulDit, I think it very likely I should go Into journalism. -It would be more natural to me than anything else." That was the amount of the conversation. I hav some recollection of one in April, and that was when Monlton had a plan on foot to buy theOoiden ge of Tilton and send him to Europe, and Carpenr came in and talked with me about it. I recollet very distinctly that conversation. . My eyes were beginning to bs enlightened, my education was beginninjr. to tell on me a little, and I said to Mr. C-arpenter, distinctly Mr. Carponter, that is a matter whlcb I can havo nothing to do with. I don't know bnt that if Tilton wishes to go to Europe with his family and live there for some time that hU friends wonld hi willing to raise that amount of money, but that is a matter you must talk over with somenooye.se, not with me. o . Did you say that if Tilton prmtel hla docu ments you would never ascend that noloit aenln? A. 1 never said that, and I should never talk about the thin? with snch a weak man as ho. H. who introduced the subject of going to Europe when Carpenter came to see yeu? A. He did, O. in the statement which von have made. and letters wh'cb you have published, you express great agitation, sorrow and suffering, even to anguish, How do you reconcile that with the tone of your public ministrations, and with tbe declarations of peace and trust which have fallen fr m you from time to time in the lecture room? A. I explain it in nreeinely the same war as I do the words of Paul, who said he died deaths dally: that he wits the offscoorlng of the earth, navingmecare or all the churches, and yet with all this burden on bis raind he described himself as living in tbe most transcendent religious peace and Joy. That stands on record in human literature. Godly Rorrow worked the Joy. The first effects of these irouDies to me were most anguishing and despairing. and oftentimes I i a- in them as a ship heaves on the sea n times of clm when she can make no progress, and yet can not be still. But after a little came the reaction, nd by the power of the Holy (J host my mind was lif ed about these things, and 1 said to myself: "It is my cuslness as a ram and a minister to live tbe doctrines I bave been preaching. I have a ways been elling people how to msnag sorrow, and telling men n-w to bear up under their tr übles. I determined ihat I would not rlinch, wbine or sit down. I must stand up, and I did not care how much ths Lord-piled on roe. I believed He would nor pat on me more than I could bear If 1 lose to it, and I took work whenever it offered, and I went th ough the work and grew strong under It, - and at Intervals had experiences of peace and of res lgna'lon and of Divine comfort which I bad uever known before in all my life; and In tbe retrospect of all this trouble I can say truly that 1 am batter carabl of Interpreting the comforts of the wo d of God to sorrowing hearts than ever I should have been if I had not passed th rough this discipline. I have lost brothers, and bave had many friends who bave died an1 some who have not died, and yet under all this I have never been more sustained than l have in this. il. Notwithstanding yonr great suffering during the lat four .vers. do you feel that your health or powers for labor and usefulness are Impaired 9 A. I work because I like to work. I worked because my wh le sou' was saylpg to roe, go forward and preach ; l never measured how long the shadow was o' ray life. I never put a question to myself once, whet her I was higher or lower than o her christian ministers, io be called the first preacner in America or the world Is omy throwing a shadow at me. I have bat one feeling about thf, and that is, Just as long as live every particle of strength, aud imagination, and feeliug and reason, and body and bouI I give to my c untryaudtomy kind, and that Is all the ambltloo I have. I neverbnd better health than l tsve to-day. I do not propose lo be id e, and I shall do sga'n what I d d in the beginning of my life. I never ask d anybody perm I Mou to' work. I sha I not as k an body lor permission to work now. The channels 1 wo-k lnmay flow here or there, bat i propose io worn, io yetrs yet. CLrOSINQ lTd LABORS. ACTION OP PLYMOUTH CHURCH THB COM MlTTEK'S RKPORT BKECHER OFF FOR TIIK WHITE MOUNTAINS. New York, August 14. At tbd business meeting oi Plymouth Church, this evening, Mr. Siiearman said tint it waa known to all of them that the subcommittee of the examining committee had had a mostimportan' sut j't on its hands in the matter of the investigation, and the testimony being ended, an 1 all its witneees examined, tne qtH sum aos whether thecommittee)jould uiitkA an early report, t r take Koine limn to give the ioa er du c i ieration. In view ot this h IT r-td a re9 lutioti to tho effect that tl nl a- the examining committer thinks it ii'-eesary to take urther tetimnr,y or examine ther wit nessHi., that it t e reQuesied io report iwxt Fndty evning at ti e elf ae rf th' prayer m etui. Mr.Stienrtuau went on to av that tin 1 1 ought thi.t all th witne-es in the ae hd ben examined. Mr. t'loveUn-i Slid that tho con m ttee had ytt a nr at deal of w rk to do. as in report bad to 1 o kot ready f r pub-ln-st on, but he hd no right on bhali ot the omiiniue- to say tust tri case was cl ed, and whn th-t was done it would be nappy to furnish is deisin. Its print ill aa a on. mi tev fr m the tieinnintr to ti e eud nt tbe iiivetigaiou Lad been fidoiity to the

uty for which it was appointed. It meant y try this cae so that it mUt re to main tried. Mr. Hallidav thmmht , it waa unnecessary to urge any preniature cwuii ou i ue part or tbe commit-, and ho move1 thnt ik .. tee, tion be amended, and that the words "a noon asposaiDie" De substituted for Fridav night next. The amendment wan accepted, by Sherman, and put in the followinz words: lie sol veil, That the examining: committee be requested to make a report at at early date as possible, consistent with the best "interests of truth and justtce. This resolution was adopted, and the meetinir adionrned. Mr. TlrtHo. 1.. --.- tho White Mountain next week. Many of bis church member and other friend called upon him to-night to express eympau uiu uiiu j;uou uye. THE CHENKY-WUITEHOUSB CASK. THE FAMOCS SUIT ENDED AT LAST A DECISION THAT CHENEY WAS NEVER LEO ALLY DEPOSED TIIE CASK DISMISSED. Chicago, III., Aug. 15. In the Circuit Court this afternoon, Judge Williams ren dered a decision in the famsus CheneyWhitebouse case. Application waa made te Judge Williams last spring by the counsel of tbe Whitehouse side of the controversy for an injunction restraining the Key. Charles E. Cheney from longer preaching in Christ Church and the organi zation from the farther ose of the church property. The case was argued for sevearal usts, and taken nnder advisesaent by trie eon it, wno give bis opinion to-day. The court declared that theobjec: ions to the form of the original bill were not well taken and wore therefore overruled. His decision em bodied the following points: That the di-od-crty, though originally taken in the name of trustees, was in fact taken for the benefit of all who should be attached to the dis-,' cipline and worship of the Protes tant r..piscoral Uhurcb; that the prop-, erty waa held for the benefit of tbe Protestant Episcopal Church, and not for the low , church party; that all churches in the United States are regarded in law only as voluntary- ' societies, ana the laws and rules of cnurcn organization are regarded as stipulations existing between tbe parties; tbat the ex- ' isting canons were tbe stipulations by which Cheney agreed to be tried: that a church court more nearly resembles- a court of arbitration than a civil tribunal; and that, by a law governing similar arbitratiors, all the arbitra tors must be present at tbe hearing; tbat the court for the iirsttrial of Mr. Cheney consisted of five assessors f and lour only being present at the trial and final de cision, it was not a court within tbe meaning of the church canon and its action was void; that upon the second trial the court bad no jurisdiction over tbe subject matter, ana us aecision was siao void; that the bishop bad no power to s?ntenoa except i a pursuance of the finding or a church) court, and auch findings beinir iuv&lid. his sentences were also void, and Cheney was never leguiv deposed front tno ministry. The bill is therefore dismissed for want of equity. . GLOSTER BEATS RED CLOUD. TIIE HOUSE TAKES SECOND MONEY. THE BEST FOUR HEATS EVER TROTTED A DEAD HEAT BETWEEN OLDSTER AND REDCLOUD OTHER ROCHESTER BACIES. " ROCHE.STER, Aug. 14. The unfinished 2:33 race waa won by Frank Wood. SUMMARY. Purse of 2,500 for the 2:33 class: f 1,200 to the first, $700 to tbe second, f409 to the third. ?'jou to tne lourtn. Frank Wood .-. , .8 Belle Brasfleld. 1 l 4 a 7 1 ft a 3 0 r 3 4 J. D. Benton 1 Mambrino Kate,......... 8 Time, 2:), 2 s, 2,2:24 The 2:20 race was won by Gloster. Th first beat was a dead oue between Uloster and Red Cloud. SVMMARY. Jlosfer, Red Cloud. I a 4 1 1 2 4 S 3 4 dis. Sensation HL Jatnes. .4 (iaeelle 4 Carcors , Henry . drawn. Time, first heat, by quarters, halves, three quarters and mile, ä 1 1 20 ; second heat, MM, lrw'l:H, 2:17J4; third heat, 2h4 1: Sl:ti,2:t7; fourth heat, 4fi, 1:9, l;s3hi 2:1. This is the best four heats evor trotted. The 31 race was won by Nettie Irwin. SUMMARY. Purse, fl.000 for 2:31 horses; 1,750 to first. 81,150 to second, $700 to third, $400 to fourth. Nellie Irwin ... ., 16 1 James Howell, Jr & 4 12 l ady Star 2 8 V 4 Dinah 4 S S X Time, 2:ü, 27, 2 :26, During tbe afternoon Goldsmith Maid, Lulu and Mambrino Gift were thown upon tho track. President Whitney, of tbe association, called tbem to the fudge's stand and presented each cf tbem, on benslf of the ladies of Kochester, wita a beautiful collar mado of flowers. It is reported that iu Germany the largely increasing number of short-sighted persons is believed to have resulted from the imperfect modes of teaching and learning. In England a similar increase has been observed in all schools, not excepting those ot the highest class and universities. It has been ascertained in Germany, a London iournalist declares, tbat ''short eight is, in arge measure, due to tbe unnatural positions children are compelled to assume by reason of the awkward construction of thadeks and seats, and to tbe Imperfect lighting of tbe school building. Tee same result, attributed to the fcaiue aautes, appears in Sweden, -Denmaik, Hwi aerland and. America, and in all of th-st countries steps are now being taken to remedy tha evil." A Portland paper says: ' Mr. William Allen's dog Hcott, whose wouderlul performance s in stopping runaway horses and whose general sagacity are wtll known, tha otherday heard his master remark that' heshould visit tbe inlands in the af ornoonBefore Mr. Allen started the dog went down the street, and to ually took pasae on tbe steamer Gazell", ret ui nil g iu the 0 o'clock boat. As Mr. AlUn aeui iu aa;l boat, h 8w ncthii'got the dog till be Doticed him coming off tue Gazelle up n hi- rtturo. The dos had bten to the islaud with his master I iu tbe steamer, aud nauial:y up posed be would go by tLe same conveym ca ou this cccasiou. Onenteds tobeaie'ul what ono says m tho prtseme of so wise a dog." Gov. Talbot an 1 natfsndthe Fish Commissioners of M&8sacfcuseits Lave mapped out a fortnight's sport at Stbago Lsk in Maine, beginning! ext Monday. They have In view the transfer of salmon aud other fishv to Massachusetts watet a.

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