Indianapolis Times, Indianapolis, Marion County, 4 August 1937 — Page 5

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WEDNESDAY, AUG. 4, 1037

THE INDIANAPOLIS TIMES

PAGE §'

Q-and-A Testimony at Joel A. Baker Trial

F. D. R. TELLS OF FIGHT UPON

(Continued from Page One)

Spoke, and I think Joel motioned |

Tike he wanted to see me.

Iroom. |

| Q—That is the taproom of the | Harrison Hotel? A—Yes, sir. ‘Q—When you entered there, who | did you see there? A-—As I remember, there were Mr. Baker and Mr. | Cancilla and one of the waitresses, | and the bartender. | Q—Where were Mr, Baker and | Mr. Cancilla when you entered? | A—Mr. Baker was sitting on a stool | near the bar, and Mr. Cancilla was | standing, possibly two or three feet | om Mr. Baker. Q—This was still a little before 12 | clock, you would say? A—I would | say, yes, possibly 10 to 12. Q—Did you do anything when you | went there? A—I walked up to Mr. | Baker and Mr. Cancilla. | Q—Now, did you see any drinks served? A—They each of them had something to drink, yes, sir. | Q—Just what did either Baker or | Cancilla say to you in your pres-| ence and what did you say? A—) Well, the first thing Mr. Baker said, when we went in, he looked at me | and said, “Well, you big son-of-a-gun, you thought you was going to be ‘elected delegate. I saw Mr. Bradshaw was not elected.” TI said, “You hear no complaint from me, | on the matter. Makes no difference to me.” | Q—What did they say next? | A—A Tittle after that, there wasn’t much conversation, but Mr. BaKer said toe Mr. Cancilla, “Pete, it’s time to go get that guy,” and Pete told Mr. Baker, “Joe, we better think this over.” We says, “Better wait a couple of hours.” Q—What else was said? A— And just a Jittle after that Joel said to Pete again, “Pete, it's time to go get that guy,” and Pete again hesitated and told Mr. Baker that he thought they ought to think it over; didn’t think they should. Q—What else was said? A— About the same thing was repeated the third time. Q—Tell the jury what was said. A—Joel said, “Pete, it's time to go get that fellow. Yet's get him now.” And Pete again said, “No, we better think it over,” After | that YT left the taproom. Q—And had vou been a candidate in any ‘elections shortly before that? | A—T had. Q—For what? A-—Delegate. Q—Delegate to the State convention. Q—-You had been defeated? A— That's right. Q—Where did you Harrison taproom? A—I left the Harrison taproom and went out | through the lobby of the hotel, down | on Market St., to Illinois, south on | llinois to the Claypool Hotel, and into the breakfast shop and ate my Tunch. Q—About what time did you arrive at the breakfast shop? AI would not say for sure, possibly 10 after 12; 15 or something like that. | Q—Did you see the defendant | Baker leave the Harrison Taprocm? | A—1 did not. Q-You left ahead of him? He was there when I left. Q-—-Now, when you used the word | ‘son-of-a-gun,” you say the de- | fendant called vou a hig son-of-a- | gun, is that actually what he ‘calied | vou. or did he use the equivalent of | some other word? A—I believe that is what he called me. Q—When did vou first learn of the assault on Wayne Coy? | MR. KARRER— Objection to that. Makes no dif- | ference when he first learned of it. That would be hearsay. Woulan't establish any fact in this court, wnat he may have learned. JUDGE EMMERT— Chjection sustained. PROSECUTOR SPENCER— Q-—Did all this you have testified to occur in Marion County, in the State of Indiana in the past year? | A—TIt has. CROSS-EXAMINATION MR. KARRER—

Q—-You had a drink with Baker, did vou? Joel bought you a drink? A—-Yes, : Q-—You and he were friendly? A-—I had nothing against him. Q-—That is what I say, you were friendly enough to have a drink, vou were talking about you had ron for delegate and been defeated? A—That's right. Q—And he was kidding You about you having been beaten, whether he beat you or not, I don’t know; anyhew you didn't get elected, and that is what you were talking about? A—That's right. Q—And there wasnt any words between you and Joel Baker? A— No, sir. Q-—You hadn't talked about Coy? A—There had been no names mentioned. Q-—Hadn't A—TNo. Q-Did they say, “Go get thai cuy,” or “Go see that guy?” A—"Go get that guy.” Q—They didnt say anything | about going and hitting anybody or hurting anybody? A—No, sir. Q—You don't know what they were referring to? A-—I do not. Q—You didn't put any signifjcance to the word at all? A—I did not. I turned and went out. Q—They were all laughing and | {alking, weren't they? You were jaughing and talking, weren't you? | A—Yes, Sir. Q—You were all laughing and | (alking there and you had your | drink and you walked out of the | par? A—Thats right. Q—That is about what occurred? A—That's right.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

MR. HAGEMEIER— Q—You did attach some signifi-

the |

go from

talked about Coy?

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cance to that remark later on, didn't

| risen Hotel.

| vison Bar or taproom on that mom-

| a quarter to 11. | a quarter after 11.

on the second trip?

| morning, or that day?

ers in there that morning?

| see Judge Dewey Myers here about |

[ you? MR. KARRER— I am going to object. JUDGE EMMERT— Objection sustained. MR. HAGEMEIER— Q—Were you laughing in the barroom there at any particular thing? A—I didn’t get the question. Q—Were you laughing at any particular thing in the taproom, Judge? A—I don't know of any particular thing, as I remember, they were both laughing, I suppose I did, too. Q—That was over the matter of the election of delegates? A—That's right. Q—After that conversation ended about the delegate, was when Joel said to Pete Cancilla, “Go get that guy’? MR. KARRER— We object to that. JUDGE EMMERT— Objection sustained. MR. HAGEMEIER— That's all. (Witness excused.)

Charles Fisher

DIRECT EXAMINATION

MR. HAGEMEIER— Q—State your name. J. Fisher. Q—Where do you live? A—206 N. State St, Q—What is your occupation? A— Coal business. Q--With what coal company are you associated? A—Penn Coal Co. Q—How long have you been with | them? A—Thirty years. | Q—Do you know Judge Dewey | Myers? A—I do. | Q—Do you know the defendant, | Joel Baker? A—I know Mr. Baker by sight.

A—Charles

Q—Do you know Pete Cancilla? |

| AT knew Pete Cancilla from see- |

| something about taking a drink and |

they ®oth laughed. | Q—That is all you heard or saw?

A—That is all. CROSS-EXAMINATION MR. KARRER—

No questions. (Witness Excused) |

Richard Macy

DIRECT EXAMINATION MR. HAGEMETER— Q—What is your name? A-—Rich- | ard Merrill Macy. O—Where do you live? A—2001 N. | Talbot. Q—Indianapolis? A—Yes, sir. Q—How long have you lived iQ | Indianapolis? A—TwWo Years. | Q—What is your occupation? A— | Bartender. Q—Where are you employed as a bartender? A--Harrison Hotel, | Q—How long have you been em- | ploved there? A-—Ever since the |

| first of February. *

Q—Of this year? A—That’s right. | Q—Were you at your employ- | ment there on the morning of March 1, 193%? A—I was. | Q—At that time did you know the defendant, Joel Baker? A-—Yes, sir. Q—Did you know the codefendant, | Pete Cancilla? A—I did. Q-—Did you see them in the Har- |

A—No. |

Q—Did they come in again that | A—No. Q—Did you see Judge Dewey My- | AT | don't know the gentleman. ! Q—You did not see him? A—I say | I don’t know the gentleman. | Q—Did you see another person in there that morning? A—Yes. | Q—-Did he join them at the bar? | A—I don't remember. Q—You don’t remember? Did you | the Court House today? A—NOo, sir, I dont know the gentleman. Q—How many drinks did you serve Joel Baker that morning? A—1 don’t remember, Q—You have no memory of that. Did you serve him so many drinks that you don’t remember how many? MR. KARRER-— Wait a minute. to object to that. JUDGE EMMERT— Objection sustained. MR. HAGEMEIER— | Q—What kind of whisky, if any, | did you serve Joel Baker that morning? A—Seagram’s V. 0.

We are going

Yes,

1. a waitress?

Q—You don’t remember how many drinks? A—Net the exact number, neo. Q—More than one, though? A— Yes, sir. Q—More than two? A—VYes, sir. Q—Possibly more than three?

MR. KARRER— I am going to object. JUDGE EMMERT— Overruled. MR. HAGEMEIER— Q—More than three? than two. Q Each time Seagram's V. O.? A—Yes, sir. Q—You would not say that a third person did not join them at the bar there? MR. KARRER— We are going to object. testify. That is leading suggestive. JUDGE EMMERT— Overruled. Q—You wouldn't say ‘the third person didn't join him at the bar there? A—No. Q—Was a waitress on duty at that time? A—There was. Q—What was her name? A— Sarah Kirby. Q—Did you see any girl in there with him that morning? A—No, sir. Q—Did a girl come in there later? MR. KARRER— Wait a minute. All right, answer the question yes or no. MR. MACY— Yes, sir. Q—Do you know her name? A—

A—More

Let him and

No, sir.

Q—Would you know if you heard

it?

| MR. KARRER—

Objection. JUDGE EMMERT— Objection overruled. Go ahead and answer. A—Yes, sir. Q—Was it Patricia Ferren? SIT, Q—How long after Baker's and Coy’s, or Baker's and Cancilla’s last visit te the taproom was it before Patricia Ferren came in?

| you have a conversation with Judge MR. KARRER—

Wait a minute. We are going to object, leading and suggestive. JUDGE EMMERT— Overruled. Q About what time did she come in? A—About 10 or 15 minutes after the last time. MR. SYMMES— Move to strike out the answer. JUDGE EMMERT— Motion overruled. Q—Had vou seen Miss Patricia Ferren in there previously with the

| defendant, Joel Baker? A— | MR. KARRER=

Object to that. CROSS-EXAMINATION.

| MR. KARRER—

Q—Did you have a lot of people in there from the State House come over and have a drink once in a while? A—Yes, sir. @—On that particular morning, vou had no independent recollection about the number of people that came and went in there, did you? A—Yes, I had. Q—But you don't recall Judge Myers or anybody there with Mr. Baker and Mr. time? A—No.

—And you don’t recall anybody | | having a drink with them? A—No.

Q—And was Mr. Baker laughing

land talking with anybody or did 2 {you pay any attention?

A—No. 1 didn’t pay any attention. Q—There was nothing te attract your attention to him, was there? A—No. Q—He acted gentlemanly, didn't he? A—Yes, sir. Q—There wasn't anything about Mr. Cancilla that attracted your attention to him, was there? A—No.

Sarah Kirby ,

PROSECUTOR — Q—State your Kirby. Q—Where do you live? A—2354

name. A—Sarah

| Central.

Q—Are you married? A—No. Q—Have you been married? A— Yes. Q —Are you now a widow? A—Yes. Q—Any children? A—Two. Q—What are their ages? A—I1 and 12. Q—What is your occupation? A— Waitress. Where were you employed as A—At the Harrison Hotel. Q—-How long have you been employed there? A—Over three years. MR. KARRER— I'd like to ask a preliminary question. Did you talk to Mr. Seidle this morning about the testimony? WITNESS — I don’t know who you mean. I don't know which one it was, MR. KARRER— The little short fellow. A—No.

MR. KARRER— Did you go to the Prosecutor's office? A—Yes. MR. KARRER— Who did vou talk to there? A—I talked to a little short fellow. I talked to all of them. MR. KARRER— You talked to the little short fellow, then, didn't you? You talked 10 Seidel, then didn't you? A-—I don't know who Mr. Seidle is.

MR. KARRER— Is Mr. Seidle here? Bring Mr. Seidel in. A—TIs he a little short fellow with black hair?

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MR. KARRER— I don’t remember his hair. He he is. Did you talk te this man about coming up here? A—Yes. Q—You talked about the case, didnt you? A—I asked him how long it would be, and asked him how long I'd have to be here.

Q—You talked to him yesterday about this case, didn’t you? A—Not exactly. Q—What do you mean, “not exactly’? A—I just asked him how long it would be before it would be over, Q—You were here yesterday, weren't you? A—No, I wasn't here yesterday. Q—You said you talked to him yesterday, is that right? A—I'm sorry if I said yesterday. I didn't mean yesterday. It was Monday. Q—Is Mr. Lynch here? Did you talk to anyone about the case in the prosecutor's office besides Mr. Hagemeier and Mr. Spencer? A—No. ili one except those two. A— 0. Q—You didn’t talk to those two yesterday? A—No. PROSECUTOR--Q—Were you employed as a waitress at the Harrison Hotel on March ist, this year? A—Yes, Q—Were you at that time acquainted with Joel Baker, the defendant here? A—I knew him as a customer. Q—Did you also know, at that time, Pete Cancilla? A—I knew him when I saw him. Q—Did you, at that time, know, by sight, Judge Dewey Myers? A— Yes. Q—Did you see Joel Baker and Pete Cancilla in the Harrison Taproom, the day of March 1st, this year? A—Yes. Q-—About what time did you first see them there? A—About 11:30. Q—And was anyone with them, when you first saw them? A—Judge Dewey Myers. Q—What part of the taproom were they in? A—In the bar. Q—Did you see what they were doing there? A—They were drinking. Q@ — Do you know how many drinks defendant oJel Baker had? A—I don't know the exact amount, but they had more than one. Q—You said they had more than one—who do you mean by “they.” A—Mr. Baker and Mr. Cancilla, I | don’t know about Judge Myers. Q—Was Judge Dewey Myers in

| prior to that time with the defend- | ant, Joel Baker— Mr. Karrer—Ob-

there all the time they were? A—I think he was there about five minutes. Q—Did you see who left first? A | —Judge Dewey Myers. Q—Did you hear any of the con- | versation in there? A—No. Q—Who was the bartender on | duty at the time? A-—Macey. Q—Richard Macey? A-—Yes. Q—Did you see the defendant, Joel Baker, leave? A-—Yes, sir. Q—About what time did he leave? A—I don't know the exact time, | but he must have been there about 15 minutes. { Q—Well, was it around noon | would vou say? Objection. | (Question withdrawn.) Q—How long was he there before | he left? A—About 15 minutes after | they came in. [ Q—Now, were vou positive of the

| times you are giving here, or are | they approximate. A-—They are pproximate. Q—When Joel Baker left, did any-

| one leave with him? A—Mr. Can-

cilla. Q—The two left together? A— Yes. | Q—What door of the taproom | did they leave? A-—Market St. | Q—And as they left, did you say | anything to either of them? Objection—Overruled. A—I don't remember exactly what | (I said. | Objection—Overruled. | Q-—-You said something to them? | | A—Yes, sir, I said something. | @-—Do you remember what you | | said? The substance of it? A—| | Well, I said something about “come i back” or “whats your hwry?” I don't remember just what, A—And did either of the defend{ants say anything in reply? A— | Mr. Cancilla said he had a little | job to do, and he'd be back. I don't remember just the exact words. Q—And is that all that was said | at that time? A-—That was all. Q—Now, how long was that after | Dewey Myers left, approximately. A—TI'd say about five minutes. Q—Now did you see the defend-

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ants come into the taproom again that day? A-—Yes. Q—When was that? A—It was 30 or 45 minutes after they left. Q—Did you say anything to

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’ Tm either of them say any- Note te Congress Sais e's ng you? A-—No. pte, oing Everything He Can To End Chemicals’ Use.

MR. KARRER Objection. JUDGE EMMERT Overruled. Q—What did they do then? They went up to the bar. Q—What did they do at the bar? MR. KARRER Objection. JUDGE EMMERT Overruled. A—They drank. Q—Did you notice how many drinks they had? A—No, I don't know exactly how many they had

at that time, but it was more than | nations.” one.

The President made his statment —Do vou k rw WOW mn tos rer RS what they were |. notifying the Senate that he had

. : | vetoed a bill which would have Q—Is rhisky? A— wore of Sug a whisky? A—It's 2! changed the name of the Govern-

' E ‘ t's “Chemical Warfare Service” Q—Did you notice anything else a “ ; > that they did at the bar? g to the “Chemical Corps.

: . { Outlining his stand on the use of don't know. They w < % 1? wah Ch ivy were talking be- | noicon gas and other chemicals

I don't know. |! Q—How long did they

A : By United Press

WASHINGTON, Aug. 4 —President RooSevelt told Congress in a special message today that he is “doing everything in my power to discourage the use of gases and | other chemicals in any war between

stay in | designed to kill, the President exthere that time? A—About five Pe IS Soto In tow Wo! o Te Besciiy Then sonvaniion, i | DOVE 10 discourage the use of gases cot Wher on Te | and other chemicals in any war you can, while they were in there | between nations > re me. “While, unfortunately, the deObjection fensive necessities of the United Judge Emmert=— States call for study of the use of Overruled chemicals in warfare, I do not want A—Well- they went to the bar | the Government of the United don't Know what thev Saif—any-—| States to do anything to aggrandize . Wl , wn. | Or Make permanent any special am, There were laugh | bureau of the Army of the Navy Q—Is that the last time you saw | engaged in the studies. them that day? That's the last | “I hope the time will come when time : nr "| the Chemical Warfare Service can Q- Uhat week? A-Yes | be entirely abolished. Or ' rl | “To dignify this service by calling iii] > v t Or. | . . - 4 et {it the “Chemical Corps’ is, in my > . a ge | judgment, contrary to a sound pubObection. Overruled. A—I Know |... sac her when I see her. I Sid — Q—Did she come in there that aye Ave © 5 FT. WAYNE STRIKE — ime di iss Ferran come in? A-—She came in about | REACHES STALEMATE five minutes after Mr. Baker and | wo - Mr. Cancilla left. I think it was | rr WAYNE Aug 4 With ee Minutes conduct ‘While | neither side willing to take the lead | She ‘Was ‘there? Mr. Karrer—Objec- in peace overtures, a strike affecting | tion Jud I erie 125 persons at the Capehart, Inc, Q H ig? . \ > h Radio Manufacturing Plant, was] —lad you seen her In here | g.jemated today. Pickets milled | about the main gates, their number | i: . . augmented by reinforcements from | jection. Judge Emmert—Sustained. | gther local industries. Q—Did you learn of the slugging | yUnited Electrical and Radio of Wayne Coy on that day? Mr. | Workers, strike sponsors, continued Karver—Objection. Judge Emmert a campaign to unionize all em- | —Sustained. | ployees, after annonucing a 100 per | Q—That's all. | cent affiliation would have to pre-| (Testimony Incomplete.) Iude any settlement. F. W. Gigax, | ee . | general manager, reaffirmed his | RAIL PROBERS HEAR | stand against a closed shop. | GUNS SALUTE QUEEN | OF BOOK PURCHASE on 37TH BIRTHDAY! By United Press Young Says $15,000 Came LONDON, Aug. 4—Salutes of 41| | guns were fired at Hyde Park and | : . {| the Tower of London today in honor | From Own Funds the T f London today in honor | a— of the 37th birthday of Queen Eliza- | Unik Bris beth. | BY LWTIAS pe | As the salutes were fired, Britons | WASHINGTON, Aug. 4—Robert jearned that they would celebrate | R. Young, New York financer who the King's 42d birthday next June 9. | has purchased control of the $3,-| Actually the King's birthday is | 000,000,000 Van Sweringen rail em- Dee. in pire, told the Senate rail finance inquiry today he bought $15.000 of Democratic national conveation handbooks autographed by President Roosevelt. Mr. Young said that when he was solicited to purchase the books “not a word was said” about the fact that he or his partners would be called to Washington to appear before | Government agencies in connection with the rail empire. He was solicited, he said, early in

resented the Democratic National Committee and asked him to purchase the books for the Chesapeake Corp. and Allegheny Corp., top! holding companies in the Van Sweringen system. Mr. Young said the two solicitors called him on the telephone without introduction, then visited him in his apartment urging him to purchase the books for Alleghany, Chesapeake and other companies in the rail system. ‘ “I refused,” he added. “ I bought the books with my own personal funds. I want to make it clear that I didn't use Alleghany, Chesapeake or any other corporation funds.”

AN \\ \ Sa

¢ | famous sisters, | respiratory infection.

Believed to have lost their lives, along with 10 other persons, in the crash of the Pan-American-Grace Sikorsky piane that fell into the Caribbean Sea near Cristobal, Canal Zone, were Pilot Stephen S. Dunn, top; Co-Pilot Lawrence Arnold Bickford, lower right, and G. Q. Caldwell, Department of Commerce airline inspector, lower left. Fragments of the plane were found floating 20 miles from the Colon breakwater by searching planes.

HOSPITAL GROUP ELECTS John Dupree has been

1 ILL, 4 OTHER QUINS GUARDED

Child’s Respiratory Infec= tion Blamed by Dr. Dafoe On Outside Contact. By United Press CALLANDER, Ont, Aug. 4-—-

Precautions against outside cone tact with the Dionne quintuplets

were redoubled today after the ille ness of ‘Emilie, third largest of the was diagnosed as

Dr. Allan Roy Dafoe, who ate tended the birth of the five girls in a primitive, backwoods farme house, summoned Dr, Allan Brown, Canadian specialist in children’s diseases and medical consultant to the quintuplets since their birth, He confirmed Dr. Dafoe’s diagnosis and ordered Emilie confined to an isolation ward at least until the end of this week. Dr. Dafoe and Dr. Brown were convinced that Emilie’s infection had been obtained from outside the nursery after examining the staff at the Dafoe nursery.

JEWISH NATION IN FUTURE PREDICTED

{ By United Press { ZURICH, Switzerland, Aug. 4. Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president,

——

elected

opened political debate at the 20th | World Zionist Congress today with a vigorous address in which he said | the British plan for the division of | Palestine into three parts is une | acceptable as it stands, but that the Jews should agree to it in principle | as a basis of negotiations for estabe

president of the reunion organiza- | lishment of a Jewish state.

tion of the past and present em- | Hostoday. vice

ployees of Indiana Central pital, it was announced Theodore Smith was named

He pointed out there is no ques- | tion of settling all persecuted Jews | there, but predicted a strong coms

president and Mrs. Julietta Brown, | munity of 2000000 organized as a

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