Indianapolis Times, Volume 46, Number 226, Indianapolis, Marion County, 30 January 1935 — Page 1

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GIVAN DENIES WEISS CHARGE AT GAS PROBE Talk Was -Misunderstood,’ Insists Attorney for Users Firm. ADMITS ‘DUMMY’ SETUP Witness Remains Calm but Refuses to Disclose Real Backers. State Senator Jacob Weiss “misunderstood 1 their conversation, Clinton Givan, attorney for the Users Gas Cos., testified today as a voluntary witness before the special legislative committee investigating Marion County gas activities. He denied that he had asked Senator Weiss to become co-counsel of the Users and denied, too. that he had told Senator Weiss there was SIOO,OOO for distribution to Marion County attorneys. Senator Weiss, president pro tern, of the Senate, yesterday told the committee that, while a bill designed to make it more difficult for Users to obtain a franchise to operate in Marion County was under consideration in the upper house. Mr. Givan had made both of those statements. Attorney Givan gave the committee this information about the Users, whose backers never have publicly identified: It is incorporated for SSOO with 500 shares of no par value stock, and the incorporators, who put up "some money" are “dummies” who will turn over their stock to the real owners when, and if, the city and Users sign a contract. Users will supply natural gas at the gates of the city for 35 cents a thousand cubic feet, with 900 British thermal unit quality. <lt was Mr. Givan's estimate that transportation and distribution from the gates to customers would cost approximately 7 cents a thousand cubic feet in addition.)

Offers Loan to City Users will lend the city $6,500,000 to buy the plant of the Citizens Gas Cos. and pay accrued dividends on preferred stock and take as security for the loan city revenue bonds. Users will then for a period of 10 years, on contract, supply natural gas on the terms already quoted, wit han option for another 10 years, service. Users now is operating franchises in other communities, none in Indiana. and Users considers as vicious the law passed by this Legislature to make it more difficult for it to obtain a franchise. (It will continue its efforts, nevertheless, Mr. Givan said.) Lists Nominal Incorporators Users engaged Mr. Givan as attorney early last summer, and it was on his advice that Users did not immediately apply to the Indiana Public Service Commission for permission to enter the field. Nominal incorporators of Users are a "man named Minnett of near Bloomington. Ind."; Marshall Oberholzer, paving contractor and brother of Madge Oberholzer. for whose death D. C. Stephenson now is serving a life term in prison, and George Meyers, an attorney. Users is in no way connected with the Columbia Gas and Electric Corp., and will not consider buying gas from it or any of its subsidiaries. although Users is in the market for natural g s when, and if, it signs a contract with the city. Attorney Givan refused information to the committee on certain points on the grounds it was confidential information between lawyer and client. to Name Barkers He would not reveal the identity of his backers or their financial status. He would not tell in what states or for how long they had operated franchises. He would not tell where their natural gas supply was to come from, especially refusing to say whether it would be from Indiana wells, but said the Users’ geologist had assured them the source was good for 35 to 40 years. Mr. Givan would not tell, either, what “written agreements" he had made for the supply of gas. but admitted Users had no contract with any pipeline company for the Indianapolis market as yet. He would not tell whether he personally had an option on any of the 500 shares of Users stock, to be exercised if the deal went through. Tells Story Calmly A calm witness: Mr. Givan said that he understood that the Columbia Gas and Electric Corp. owned about 59 per cent of the Citizens Gas Cos. and he added that the Citizens had violated its franchise with the city when, with former Mayor Reginald Sullivan, now a member of its board of directors as counsel, it was successful in 1921 in obtaining an increase in the rate (Turn to Page Three( SHIPNES NEW HEAD OF SEARS, ROEBUCK STORE Assistant Manager Appointed as Col. John Burke’s Successor. Announcement has been made of the appointment of Stanley W. Shipnes. 120 E. 27th-st, as general manager of Sears. Roebuck & Cos. s Indianapolis store. He will succeed Col. John Burke, who is retiring from active business. Mr. Shipnes. who has been associated with the company since his graduation from Williams College in 1927, haa been assistant manager of the local store for several years. Col. Burke has managed the Indianapolis store since its opening in 1929.

The Indianapolis Times Partly cloudy tonight and tomorrow; slowly rising temperature; lowest tonight about 28.

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VOLUME 46—NUMBER 226

11101 o thr torn .<? of some distant year j hulk in hist'ry, he it small or greah: *% • dan is his. as millions etch the datfe jj j f f j 'll 7 'it ' tan a gesi f his, of /uw)(//// cheer - |

53 Today... THE PRESIDENT of the United States of America And Souls Triumphant By (icorrje Sanford Holmes Lmrc to the focus of some distant year His hulk ; in hist’ry, he it small or great: This day is his, as millions etch the datfe Deep in their hearts with mingled smile at\d tear. More than a gesture, this, of friendly cheer To one who holds the heavy helm of state, A toast *o all who gaily joust with fate And conquer frailties horn of flesh and fear. Not for the President, hut for the Man This day will he revered, as long as wan And wistful children share the fetters still He scorned and, sundered with Rooseveltian will, To hid them quit, like him, their beds of pain And, souls triumphant, learn to walk again.

Democrats Called to Secret Caucus; Recess on Constitution Study Denied

Democratic Legislators wnll caucus secretly at 2 today on the ninth floor of the Claypool on a matter they decline to discuss in advance. Senator Henry F. Schricker <D., Knox), caucus chairman asked direc ' if a recess would be considered to allow time for legislators to study momentous Supreme Court decisions of yesterday, replied: “There will be no recess.” Gov. Paul V. McNutt refused to comment on reports that the Supreme Count opinion, which revived “dead” constitutional amendments, would lead to sweeping changes in the Administration tax program. One of the Constitutional amendments. on which the high court opinion acted as a pulmotor. would enable, the Indiana General Assembly to enact a net income tax.

POISON LIQUOR TOLL 32; PROBE PUSHED Source of Bootleg Known, Prosecutor Hints. By United Press ALBANY. N. Y.. Jan. 30.—Investigators predicted today that they would wipe out within 48 hours the j source of poisonous liquor, which has claimed 32 lives in New York | state the past few' days. Willard Best, assistant district attorney. directing the investigation in Gloversville. where 14 persons died, forecast a "break" today or tomorrow’. Reports from Utica said the death toll there stood at 18. In Gloversville at least 10 were in a hospital, two not expected to live. Utica authorities held several men. including John Archdeacon, whom they believed was the "Archie" named by a dying woman as the man who sold her liquor. Arrest of two persons at Little Falls was announced. Child Labor Law Rejected NASHVILLE, Tenn.. Jan. 30. Tennessee representatives, by a vote of 72 to 24. today defeated ratification of the Child Labor Amendment for the second time in two ■ years.

Revolt to End Hitler’s Reign Unless Foreign Powers Step in First, Predicts Exiled German Girl-Socialist

BY TRISTRAM COFFIN' Times Staff Writer The misery of the German working class uncer the Nazis will lead to anew revolution in Germany unless the foreign powers stop Hitler's campaign of oppression and rearmament. Miss Tony Sender, petit, vigorous exiled leader of the German Socialist party, declared here today. ■ The bitter feeling of vengeance being aroused by Hitler's reign of terror can mean only revolution,” Miss Sender said, her eyes flashing. "I do not want to talk of what the revolution might be!” The sudden r.se of the Nazi government is due directly to the fact 1 that the foreign powers so re-

'Photo by Margaret Bnurke- White: Copyright. 1935. NBA Service. Inc.)

Today the Statehouse buzzed with reports that such legislation would be introduced, with or without administration sanction. Gov. McNutt said he must decline to comment now on any tax program questions. He was incommunicative also on the question of whether the Supreme Court opinion might necessitate a short recess of the assembly. Efforts to postpone House action on the bill of Rep. Henry J. Richardson Jr. <D., Indianapolis) increasing civil penalties for discrimination against persons on account of their race In hotels and other public places, caused the Marion County Negro Representative to deliver an impassioned halfhour appeal for the Constitutional rights of members of his race. An attempt to place the measure on special order for Feb. 25, which would automatically kill it, was successful by a 60-33 vote. The House adopted the Hoffman bill empowering the State Highway Commission to negotiate loans to finance Federal aid highway contracts after Rep. H. H. Evans (R., Newcastle) had demanded data from the commission on the projects upon w'hich the funds w’ere to be spent. A compromise measure, embodying features of two earlier bills relating to the practice of beauty culture and licensing of operators, was introduced in the Senate by Senators Alanson L. Albright (D.. Cayuga). George Sands (D„ South Bend) and others. Additional new Senate bills would give the Indiana Supreme Court exclusive pow'er to suspend or disbar attorneys for fraud, professional misconduct, etc.; provide that if taxes delinquent in 1934 or prior be paid by May. 1935. no penalties or fees shall be charged against them. The Governor declared that he thought the Supreme Court decision a “good one" and “the only possible application of law.” He said he would obtain legal advice as to the best method of making effective the constitutional changes the high court decision recognizes. The procedure. he indicated, may be through a proclamation with certification from the Secreatry of State as to the vote cast on the amendments. The opinion, written by Judge Walter Treanor, with only Judge

pressed Germany that the people felt that the German Republic offered them nothing, she stated. “Hitler told them he would change everything,” Miss Sender asserted, and finished grimly,” and he has changed everything!” Miss Sender was forced to flee for her life across the Czechoslovakian border when Nazi officials ordered her arrest for alleged participation in the burning of the Riechstag Building in March. 1933. “The conference in London today between British and French high officials on the German question will probably come to nothing, because Great Britain does not realize the serious danger of Hitler," Miss Sender said.

INDIANAPOLIS, WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 30, 1935

Michael Fancier dissenting, came in connection with the attorneys’ qualification amendment, but has the effect of giving life to those other amendments on which a majority vote had been cast in past elections. The amendments in some cases date back to 1900. Several have been voted on more than once, but failed to receive a majority of the total vote cast at the elecion. The new ruling by the court holds that the amendments have become effective if a majority vote was cast for the amendment, regardless of the size of the vote cast. The amendments revived include : Authorizing the General Assembly to levy an income tax. Repealing the provision that any voter of good moral character may practice law in the state. Permitting Supreme Court membership up to 11 members. Authorizing the General Assembly to pass a voters’ registration act and classify counties, cities and towns into registration districts and adopt registration classifications for any. Prohibiting an increase in salaries or tenures of public officials during terms of their office. The old ruling on adoption of constitutional amendments by ballot did not take into consideration the ratio of the vote for or against an amendment, but simply held that a majority of the vote cast at the election was necessary for enactment. DR. HERBERT WAGNER DIES IN HOSPITAL BULLETIN Dr. Herbert T. Wagner, prominent local physician, died this afternoon in the Methodist Hospital. Dr. Herbert T. Wagner, prominent local physician and director of the Red Cross first aid bureau, was in a critcial condition at Methodist Hospital today. Hospital attaches said that he spent a bad night last night. Dr. Wagner, who lives at 2357 Talbott-st, collapsed at the hospital Monday while waiting to perform an operation. He is camp physician for the Indianapolis Girl Scouts and doctor for the Shortridge Athletic Association.

Germany is rearming at a furious pace and in z. few years will be so well prepared that it will attempt to conquer France, the Baltic States ana Soviet Russia. Miss Sender predicted. Poland is allied with Germany, she said. “It is peculiar that Germany admits she had paid agents in all nations of the world and yet the foreign powers refuse to do anything about it.” she declared. "You have an organization of that type—the friends of New Germany—in this country. With a vigorous ncd of her head Miss Sender said that before ended her stay in the United States, she intended to investigate the ac-

BRUNO WEEPS AS WIFE BACKS ALIBI ON STAND

World Court Is Voted Down by Senate After Dramatic 6-Hour Session Defeat Comes as Stunning Reversal for Administration; 36 Cast ‘No’ Ballots After Norris Declaration Swings Tide Against Measure. By United Press WASHINGTON, Jan. 30.—American adherence to the World Court became a dead political issue today. The Senate rejection of the court protocols was generally believed to mean the end of Roosevelt Administration’s efforts to obtain American participation. The defeat was extraordinary. Ten days ago the Administration was considered a certain victor in its fight to obtain the two-thirds vote in the Senate necessary for ratifi-

DEMANDS CURB ON LOANSHARK Fiscal Board Files Report With McNutt Assailing Practices. Loan shark operations in Indiana, and the oppressive practices created by unregulated operation of finance companies, pawnbrokers and similar small loan agencies, will be outlawed if the 79th General Assembly adopts legislation recommended to Gov. Paul V. McNutt by the State Department of Financial Institutions. The comprehensive report handed to the Governor discloses amazing cases of excessive interest rates, often concealed in the purchase price of commodities, and arraigns the charging of interest on money actually repaid. Loan and investment companies would be placed under strict state supervision and regulation and commercial banks would be prohibited from charging more than l’z per cent a month on co-maker loans of SSOO or less and then only on the unpaid balances Borrowers would be permitted to prepay any part or all of future installments without interest. After charging that instalment sales contracts frequently provide for interest rates ranging from 11 to 40 per cent, and may exceed 100 per cent, the report recommends limiting finance charges to 2-3 of 1 per cent a month, and then only on unpaid balances. Commingling of interest and insurance charges would be prohibited and purchasers would be entitled to know the exact price of the article purchased. Pawnbrokers would be separated from other licensed small loan companies and strict regulations prescribed for the care of pledged property and right of sale by the broker and maximum rates of interest would be established. Before recommending a lVz per cent a month limit on co-maker (Turn to Page Three)

BADLY INJURED IN BRAWL AT TAVERN Jaw Broken, Teeth Knocked Out at Boyce's. His jaw encased in a wire cast and his head covered with bandages. Paul Schwimmer, 37 N. Rileyav, who said he was a professional radio whistler, appeared before Municipal Judge Dewey Myers today to accuse Dan Doffitt, 1262 W. Washington-st, of being the man who struck him Dec. 29 during a savage brawl at the Mayfair Tavern, operated by Johny Boyce, former chief deputy sheriff, on W. Wash-ington-st. Because an important witness failed to appear and because there seemed to be some differences of opinion as to who had struck Mr. Schwimmer, Judge Myers continued the case. All the witneses agreed, however, that the defendant had his jaw broken and five teeth knocked out during the brawl. “Where was John Boyce all this time?” Judge Myers asked. “Oh, he was home in bed,” explained a faithful bartender.

tivities of Nazi agents in this country. She claimed that the settlement of the Saar dispute has only encouraged Hitler and encouraged him to further expand his nation. The Nazis have falsified their economic and unemployment figures because they do not wish the world to know of the terrible misery in Germany now. she added. Women are reduced to becoming mere chattels of men. and have become stripped of all rights and privileges in Germany, Miss Sender stated. “The women must bear children whether they are married or not,” she exclaimed passionately. "Who takes care of the children? The mothers care for them until they become of military age.”

Entered as Second-Class Matter at Postofiice. Indianapolis. Ind.

cation. Then followed a great flood of words into American homes by radio. Telegrams pro and con poured in on Senators Irom their constituents. Votes switched and finally late yesterday afternoon when the roll was called the Aaministration was seven short of the necessary two-thirds. The defeat was believed a deathblow at least for time to agitation for American entry into the League of Nations. The opposition was led by Senator Hiram W. Johnson (R., Cal.), who has fought in his unwavering, dogged way against the court ever since American participation first was proposed more than a decade ago. Comes as Stunning Defeat The vote was a stunning defeat for the Roosevelt Administration, comparable to the Senate refusal last year to ratify the St. Lawrence Waterway treaty. The vote was 52 for adherence, 36 against. Yesterday’s Senate session, beginning at noon and lasting beyond 6 p. m., was one of the most dramatic in recent years. The story of the desperate fight for the seven votes necessary for ratification on the Senate floor, in conference and cloakrooms, is a story of carefully planned strategy that went awry, of Senators who switched their positions and then went back again, of pleadings and cajolings. The situation changed with every hour. When Majority Leader Joseph T. Robinson trudged in the morning across the snow-bordered plaza walks to tne Capitol, he realized that he faced pi'obable defeat. Norris Swings Tide But before the Senate convened he was authorized by Mr. Roosevelt to accept a reservation proposed originally oy Senator Johnson. The skies cleared for Robinson. Two, three, then four Senators reported, with that reservation, providing for treaties before submission of disputes to the court, they would vote for ratification. At that moment the stern and serious figure of Senator George W. Norris (R., Neb.), became the focal point of the fight. If Senator Norris would accept adherence under those conditions others were sure to follow. If he refused, some of the votes that had been swung over would be lost again. Norris refused. Taking the floor just as the roll was about to be called he said he considered it his “conscientious duty” to vote against the court. The Roll Call The roll call follows: AGAINST (36) Democrats (20) Bone Murphy Bulow Murray Coolidge Reynolds Donahey Russell Gerry Schwellenbach Gore Smith Lewis Thomas (Okla.) Long Trammell McCarran Walsh McGill Wheeler Republicans (14) Borah " Metcalf Carey Norbeck Davis Norris Dickinson Nye Frazier Schall Hastings Townsend Johnson White Progressives (1) La Follette Farmer-Labor (1) Shipstead FOR (52) Democrats (43' Adams GuP y Ashurst Ha .ison Bachman Ht<.ch Bailey Hayden Bankhead King Barkley Logan Bilbo Lonergan Black Maloney Brown Minton Bulkley Moore Burke Neely Byrd O'Mahoney Byrnes Pittman Caraway Pope Clark Radcliffe Connally Robinson Costigan Sheppard Dieterich Thomas (Utah) DuSv Truman Fletcher Van Nuys George Wagner Glass Republicans <9) Austin McNary Barmour Keyes Capper Hale Couzens Vandenberg Cutting v Pairs Copeland (D. N. Y.) and Steiwer (R. Ore.i, for. with Overton (D.. La.i against and Gibson iR.. Vt.) and Tydings (D.. Md.) for. with McAdoo 'D.. Cal.- against. Because of the two-thirds requirements, the pairs had to be arranged on a 2 to 1 basis. PYROMANIAC 3LAMED IN PAPER PLANT FIRE Damage Estimated at SISOO Caused Mostly by Water. A SISOO fire at the Beveridge Paper Cos., 717 W. Washington-st, ; last night was laid to arson today by Sergt. Claude Kinder, who investgiated. The damage was caused mostly by water, according to Marshall D. Lupton. company vice, president. The fire was confined to a room on the third floor where paint and oil were stored.

Forlorn Mate Testifies Hauptmann Was With Her on Nights of Lindbergh Kidnaping and Ransom Payment. SUSPECT ENDS FOUR-DAY ORDEAL Stolid Carpenter Leaves Witness Chair With His Story Unshaken Despite Bitter Grilling by Wilentz. By United Press FLEMINGTON, N. J., Jan. 30.—Anna Schoeffler Hauptmann, the tragic figure who for four weeks has watched through reddened eyes as the state of New Jersey has attempted to send her husband to the electric chair, today presented her alibi for him. The waitress-wife of the German carpenter accused of killing Charles A. Lindbergh Jr., declared from the witness stand: That her husband called for her at the bakery where she worked on March 1, 1932, the night of the kidnaping.

HALLECK WINS LANDIS’ SEAT G, 0. P. Prosecutor Beats George R. Durgan by 5000 Margin. Be United Press Despite the death of Congress-man-elect Frederick Landis of Logansport, Indiana still will send one Republican representative to Washington. Voters of the Second District yesterday elected Charles A. Halleck (R„ Rensselaer), in a special election to select Mr. Landis’ successor. He defeated George R. Durgan (D., Lafayette), 50.218 to 45,134. Mr. Halleck, 35, is Jasper County prosecutor and an active member of the American Legion. SCHMITT RESIGNS AS NAZI ECONOMIC CHIEF Dr. Schacht Named to Continue as Substitute. By United Press BERLIN, Jan. 30.—Kurt Schmitt resigned formally today, the second anniversary of Nazi accession to power, as minister oi economics. Adolf Hitler accepted the resignation and delegated Dr. Hjalmar Schacht, president of the Reichsbank. to continue to act as substitute minister. During his occupation of office Schacht has become an economic dictator with broad powers. MEXICAN REBELLION FOILED: 20 ARRESTED Exile Slated to Become President After Revolt Tuesday. By United Press MEXICO CITY. Jan. 30—Frustration of a rebellion, planned for next Tuesday in such detail that cabinet jobs already had been allotted to leaders, was claimed by the government today. More than 20 persons, some of prominence, were held by authorities. Jose Vasconcelos. now in exile in Buenos Aires, was to be president if the revolt succeeded, secret service men said.

CHAPMAN TRIAL JURY VENIRE IS EXHAUSTED Eleven Tentatively Accepted to Try Man on Murder Charge. Fifteen new veniremen appeared in Criminal Court today as prospective jurors in the murder trial of Charles Chapman 59, accused of the slaying of Mrs. Grace Lackey, 46, a year ago. A special venire of 35 called Monday was exhausted last night with 11 jurors tentatively accepted. Prosecutor Herbert M. Spencer’s questioning of each prosoective juror indicated he will as:* the death penalty for Chapman. TODAY’S WEATHER Hourly Temperatures 6a. m. ... 20 10 a. m. ... 28 -7a. m 19 11 a. m. ... 30 8 a. m 21 12 (noon).. 31 9 a. m. ... 23 1 p. m 33 Tomorrow’s sunrise, 6:55 a. m.; sunset, 5:03 p. m. In the Air Weather conditions at noon: Southeast wind. 7 miles an hour; barometric pressure. 30.63 at sea level; temperature. 31; general conditions. clear; ceiling, unlimited; visibility, five miles, smoky. COURT VOTE IS BEATEN Indiana House Refuses to Laud U. S. Senate for Action. All but four Democrats in the Indiana House of Representatives today voted against a Republican proposal to congratulate the United States Senate for voting yesterday not to adhere to the World Court.

HOME EDITION rRI C E TWO CENTS Outside Marion County, 3 Cents

That he was home with her on the night of April 2, when Dr. John F. (Jafsie) Condon threw $50,000 in ransom money over the hedge of St. Raymond’s cemetery. That he was at home with her on the night of Nov. 26, 1933, when a theater cashier says Hauptmann paid for a ticket with a ransom bill. Anna Hauptmann sat, a little nervously, in the witness chair, and twisted her thin hands in her lap as she gave testimony she hopes will clear the father of her son, Mannfried. She was carried through the tale of her marriage to the defendant, her honeymoon, her frugal attempts to save money, her humble work as a waitress in Christian Frederiksen’s bakeshop. And she was given an opportunity to settle an old score with Mrs. Ella Achenbach, the neighbor who testified the Hauptmanns visited her two days after the Lindbergh kidnaping and told of having been away on ft little trip. Proclaims Belief in Mate In a firm voice she declared that visit took place after her trip to California, and not after the kidnaping. And she intimated that Mrs. Achenbach held an ancient grudge against her because of the non-payment of a debt. When Mrs. Hauptmann concluded her direct examination at noon, she had related how she purchase a pair of field glasses for her husband—but the purchase was made after the kidnaping. And that proved that Hauptmann did not watch the Lindbergh home through those glasses as the state once assumed he did. She l*e and tossed her head in tire aii and proclaimed her belief in her husband's faithfulness, and had Insisted there was no romance in hi? friendship for her friend, Mrs. Ge-.ca Henkel. But her most important testimony had been reserved for the last. It related to the broom closet in which Hauptmann says he kept the shoe box full of money left him by Isidor Fisch. Bruno Breaks Into Tears She declared with positiveness and finality, that she never knew it was there, and demonstrated how she would have had to stand on tiptoes to reach the shelf in the closet where it was kept. Bruno Hauptmann watched his wife on the stand and suddenly tears came to his eyes when she told of a trip to Germany where she visited his mother. He raised his hand to his eyes ard wiped them. Atty. Gen. David T. Wilertz, in a softer voice than that he used when he vas prodding Hauptmann with questions, insistently directed her attention to the fact that she kept other material on that closet shelf —soap, coupons, rags—and tried to force her to say she would have noticed the shoe box if it were there. She admitted, willingly, that those things were there, “to be kept there.’’ but insisted that in reaching for them, she never caught sight of the Fisch shoe box. Discrepancies Are Cited When the noon recess was called, Mr. Wilentz was questioning her with a somewhat kindly severity upon some discrepancies between the stories she told Bronx police officials and her story of today. Throughout her testimony, Col. Charles A. Lindbergh sat quietly, gazing steadily at her, apparently deeply interested in her testimony. Mrs. Hauptmann was to return for further cross-examination in the afternoon session. Hauptmann concluded his last cross-examination this morning after lour days of almost continuous testimony. He left the stand unshaken in his denials of any association with the kidnaping or murder. Bruno Sticks to Story He had scored on two minor issues during the morning—first, when he said he had never used the plane, with which the state ir - sists the kidnap ladder was made, since 1928, and again when he said that letters from Isidor Fisch would prove details of their joint transactions in stocks, securities and furs. His finai examination under the vigorous, rapid-fire questions of the Jlurn to Page Three)