Indianapolis Times, Volume 45, Number 227, Indianapolis, Marion County, 31 January 1934 — Page 1

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5 PER CENT RATE CUT PROPOSAL BY LIGHT CO. STUDIED ______ # Annual Savings of $440,000 for Consumers Predicted by Power Firm Providing New Offer Is Accepted. DISMISSAL OF SUIT IS OBJECTIVE Points Raised in The Times’ Series Discussed in Drafted Agreement Presented to Commission in Surprise Move. Public service commissioners today are pondering an offer by the Indianapolis Power and Light Company for an immediate rate reduction of 5 per cent, estimated as an annual savings to consumers of $440,000. Acceptance of the cut would be by agreement that the suit to show cause why present rates are not too high to be dropped, complete audit and appraisal of company properties be made and anew permanent rate schedule be ordered by j the commission. An agreement drawn by the company to effect such a , plan was presented as a surprise move by attorneys at the close of an oral argument on motion to dismiss the case, heard before the full commission yesterday afternoon. Suit was instituted by the commissioners upon informa-

tion from Sherman Minton, public counselor, declaring the present rates excessive by $900,000 a year. Data disclosing ample grounds for such action was brought out in a series of articles in The Indianapolis Times, appearing daily for several weeks. The drafted agreement contained several company explanations of points raised in The Times series.

Editorial on the company proposal appears today on page ten.

In urging adoption of the agreement, William H. Thompson, company attorney, admitted that there is no adequate audit and appraisal extant upon which ‘‘just and reasonable’ rates could be based. Mr. Minton alleged that present rates are based on excessive valuation of company properties amounting to $24,000,000. That the company could not be made to shoulder the burden of proof to substantiate present rates was the basis of the motion to miss. Mr. Thompson said that the commissioners had a perfect right to institute a rate suit under the law, but could not summons the company to Justify present rates. Mr. Minton agreed that a rate order could be issued only after a regular rate hearing, but the move to show cause was instituted to give the commission data enough to decide whether such a hearing should be held. Chairman Perry McCart of the commission disagreed with both views and declared that the commission has full power to proceed as it sees fit and reopen any case and issue rate modifications at any time. Decision Due Tomorrow Other commissioners are Samuel Trabue and Moie Cook. All will pass upon the proposed agreement and decision will be announced prior to the regular hearing of the case to show cause, which is scheduled for tomorrow at 10:30 a. m.. the chairman announced. Should it be accepted, the reduced rates will be put into effect within three days. Mr. Thompson asserted that reductions amounting to $430,000 a year already have been made by the company since the merger rate order of 1927. Mayor Reginald H. Sullivan, who attended the oral argument, estimated that the new offer would mean a saving to the city of more than $20,000 a year.

Replies to Times’ Points Others present included delegations from the women's clubs, community clubs and numerous lawyers. The company replies to some of the points raised by The Times and included in the text of the agreement are: 1. The contract between the Indianapolis Power and Light Company and the Management and Engineering Corporation for services has been canceled by mutual agreement as of Oct. 1, 1933, pursuant to negotiations commenced prior to the commencement of this investigation. The.* will be included in the respondent's operating expenses only such payments made to the Management and Engineering Corporation on account of services rendered at the request of respondent. 2. The company's revenues have substantially fluctuated during 1932 and 1933 and it is necessary to make a careful estimate of the re-' suits to be expected for 1934. 3. The item of taxes will substantially affect the operating statement because the amounts to be paid for 1934 will exceed those paid in 1933. 4. The company's depreciation rates have been publicly challenged. The company proposes to study and present its past depreciation history and expenses, its gross additions and retirements for a period of years, the service life of its various classes of property and the salvage therefrom so that the question of the propriety of its depreciation rates may be fairly determined. 5. The company does not claim that Its books reflect either the actual historical cost of its property or

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VOLUME 45—NUMBER 227*

the cost of that property tp the present owner. A mere examination of the company's opening entry in this particular shows that it was intended to reflect reproduction cost new as of Jan. 31, 1927, as arrived at by the company’s engineers. Net additions subsequent to that date have been added. Under the agreement, a complete audit and appraisal will be made by "disinterested” engineers and accountants. in conjunction with the commission, and final rates based on their findings. Mr. Thompson asserted that speed wUI be used in gatheringe the data, but not to the extent-that it would be incomplete or inaccurate. He estimated that the accounting could be completed by April 15.

SOVIET BALLOONISTS PERISH IN CRASH Three Lose Lives as Gondola Falls, Explodes. By Vnitrd Prcts MOSCOW. Jan. 31.—Three daring Soviet balloonists, who ascended higher into the upper atmosphere than man had ever risen before, were found dead today at the end of their adventure. The gondola of their stratosphere balloon became detached. The balloon, which ascended to a height of twelve and three-fourths miles, fell between 3 30 and 5 y. m. yesterday near the village of Potiiski Ostrog. east of Moscow. Witnesses reported two explosions as the gondola hit the earth with terrific force. The impact was so great that the bodies of the men were mutilated and the instruments ruined. M ’NUJT REGRETS NEAR FIGHT BETWEEN COPS Indiana, Arizona Executives Not Angry, He Says. Expressing regret at reports of altercations and near fights between Indiana and Tucson police over custody f the Dillinger mobsters. Governor Paul V. McNutt today said there is no animosity between the executive departments of the two states. “I do not believe police officers should be handicapped by difficulties over rewards when they are do-, ing their duty," the Governor said. “Punishment, after all. is the goal in the capture of criminals, and not the financial rewards. "If Ohio can present a good murder case against the Dillinger mobsters, there will be no difficulty about extradition to that state. We’ll turn them over to Ohio gracefully.”

30-Hour Week, Higher Wages Asked by Miners

Free rein in getting the highest wage possible and a six-hour day, five-day week, from the coal operators was given today to international officers and the scale committee in the closing sessions of the convention of the United Mine Workers of America. The convention is expected to adjourn this afternoon. Tire 1936 convention city was to be decided upon - this afternoon. 1 That Washington would be named was forecast with the proposal of international officers to move international headquarters to the nation’s capital. In a one-sided debate that for the most part gave carte blanche to the international scale committee and officers to bargain with NRA officials and operators on hours and wage levels, the scale committee's report received the convention’s approval. A viva voce vote with but few dissenters approved the report. The report empowered the committee to ‘negotiate with the bituminous operators and through the National Recovery Administration, get the best contract obtainable.” It pointed out that NRA officials

The Indianapolis Times

Increasing cloudiness with probably some rain or snow tonight, or by tomorrow tonight with lowest temperature about 32.

FIRE SWEEPS THREEHGMES Loss in Woodruff Place Blaze Is Estimated at $15,000. Fanned by a strong wind, fire which caused a loss estimated at $15,000 to three houses in Woodruff Place today, threatened to sweep a large section of the community before it was subdued by firemen. The fire, believed to have resulted frem wiring, broke out in the four-teen-room home of Frank M. Reed, 812 West drive, causing a loss estimated at SIO,OOO. From there it spread to the ten-room residence of Mrs. Mildred Shoemaker, 826 West drive, causing loss estimated at $5,000. The strong wind fanned the flames and set fire to roof of the residence of J. R. Ring, 38 West drive, the blaze being extinguished with small loss to the roof. The blaze was discovered by Mrs. Maggie D. Browning, living across the street. Mrs. Browning knocked on the door of the Reed home, her shouts being heard by three Negro employes in the home. Booker | Heater, Mrs. H. H. McNamee, a visitor at the home, ! from the flaming house. The entire third story of the Reed home was said to have been blazing fiercely when the fire was discovered. The top two floors were destroyed. The owner was a wav from heme at the time. The back yards of the houses adjoin Arsenal Technical high school grounds. BARR REPORTEDBETTER Ex-State Bank Commissioner Tries to Commit Suicide. Condition of Thomas D. Barr, former state banking commissioner, who Sunday slashed his throat with a razor at his home, 549 East Fiftyeighth street, today was reported improved at Methodist hospital. Mr. Barr was said to have suffered a cerebral hemorrhage and a nervous breakdown recently. Times Index Auto News 12 Berg Cartoon 10 Bridge 5 Broun 9 Classified 15, 16 Comics 11 Crossword puzzle 18 Curious world H Editorial 10 Financial 13 Hickman —Theaters 9 Lipmann 13 Our Gang—A series 9 Fegler • 9 Radio 15 Sporft 14, 15 State news 8 Woman’s pages 4, 5

would meet Feb. 12 to discuss new wage contracts and urged that officers from alWdistricts, in addition to special miner representation from those districts of the Appalachian region, be in Washington to lend efforts toward a congenial settlement of wage scales with operators. Efforts of a few delegates to Stampede the convention into a more definite stand on an exact wage increase to be demanded at the Feb. 12 conference with NRA executives and operators in Washington failed under the gavel of Philip Murray, vice-president, and his refusal to recognize the belligerent delegates. •>We want a 25 per cent increase in wages asked in the scale report,” demanded James Jursick, delegate from Bradley, O. He was hooted down. Twenty-nine hundred resolutions on wage scales were incorporated in the general four-page report of the scale committee. Convention sessions opened Jan 23. William Green, president of the American Federation of Labor, and Miss Frances Perkins, secretary of labor, were among the prominent | speakers at the convention.

DILLINGER GLUM AS CAR TAKES HIM TO CROWN POINT CELL

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John Dillinger, seated between policemen in the autd that carried the desperado from the Chicago airport to Crown Point, Ind., to be tried for his life. Fear had taken the place of the bravado he had shown as a ruthless gunman.

Markey and Wilson Groomed to Battle Judge Baker for Criminal Court Bench

INDIANAPOLIS, WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 31, 1934

Pair Urged to Make Race for Democratic Nomination. BY DICK MILLER Times Staff Writer Any likelihood that the incumbent Judge Frank P. Baker will be unopposed for the Democratic nomination for the criminal court bench in the May primaries was dissipated today as several outstanding candidates were reported preparing to make the race. Regarded ‘‘out in front” in the field of prospective candidates are Joseph Markey, prominent attorney, and Prosecutor Herbert Wilson. Either might obtain the backing of the regular county organization which regards Judge Baker as somewhat of an insurgent. Since the last county election, he has banded himself with County Auditor Charles Grossart and Circuit Judge Earl Cox in what has become known as the Baker-Cox-Grossart faction and which already has made its power felt in county politics. Its strength made itself evident in tne recent contest or the courfty commissionership vacated by death of Thomas Ellis. Mrs. Ellis was the regular organization choice, but Ernest Marker, another commissioner, threw his ’vote to Gossart and John Mann was named. Depends on Amity How many candidates may be brought out against Judge Baker depends upon the degree of amity reached between the courthouse, city ! hall and statehouse groups, accord- ; ing to observers. Mr. Markey is reported by friends as being unlikely to make a bid voluntarily for the criminal bench, but might turn a receptive ear to a summons from the organization. He has some claims for political preferment, his indorsers point out, because the McNutt administration’s skip-election bill nullified Mr. Markey’s candidacy for mayor. Too, Mr. Markey was considered carefully for the municipal court three bench which went to Dewey Myers and it is reported that “backroom politics” saved him for the criminal bench race. There is some feeling among members of one faction of the Democratic party that Herbert Wilson might be tossed into the pit against Judge Baker. The prosecutor was a known aspirant for mayor some time ago, but since has indicated he may seek the superior court bench which would be vacated by Judge Russell Ryan, if the latter runs for mayor. Wilson May Enter Lists These politicians are reported to feel that Mr. Markey would be a better man for superior court than Mr. Wilson and that the latter would make a good successor to the incumbent Judge Baker. In the Republican lineup, both Ralph Spaan and Fred R. Bonifield, both prominent attorneys, are well up in the batting order. Mr. Spaan is reported to be the favorite of George V. (Cap) Coffin, who achieved the title of “Boss” in the D. C. Stephenson control of state politics. “Cap’s” political prestige has blossomed and waned and blossomed again, and his most recent political alignment is reported to be with William (Big Bill) Armitage. "Big Bill’s” political loyalties have not been always the most steadfast, although he bears the Republican stamp, but his ability to swing the city’s Negro wards entitle ; him to plenty of attention from any one seeking any office. Now a ward chairman, Mr. Bonifield will put up a stiff battle for organization support, according to j his backers, and he already claims the adherence of a majority of the ward chairmen and precinct committeemen. Mr. Bonifield Will resign his ward chairmanship sffon and if he incurs; “Cap” Coffin’s displeasure, he will have his place filled by County Chairman Edgar Hart, generally reputed a Coffin man. A group of fledgling politicians. 1 who are trying their wings tentative- j ly, may put up a fight for Judge William H. Sheaffer of municipal court four. Judge Sheaffer’s term empires’this year. Members of this pro-Sheaffer group include a number of young attorneys and recruits from the Wil-j liam Remy-Judson Stark factions to whom the mention of Coffinism is anathema. Hourly Temperatures 6a. m 18 10 a. m 26 7a. m 18 11 a. m 28 Ba. m 19 12 (noon).. 30 9 a. m 22 1 p. m 32

COLD WAVE IN CITYJROKEN Mercury to Climb Into 30s Today, Says Armington. With thermometer readings 20 degrees higher today than yesterday, the severe cold wave, which brought the city subzero weather, today had been broken, weather bureau officials reported. The mercury was expected to climb into the thirties today, remaining near the freezing point tonight and climbing again somewhat tomorrow. However, by tomorrow night somewhat colder weather is in prospect, the mercury dropping to more seasonable temperatures. The cold wave yesterday was responsible for twenty-six runs being made by. the fire department;

DILLINGER'S FATHER AWAITINGMESSAGE Mooresville Farmer Plans to Visit Son. By United Press MOORESVILLE, Ind., Jan. 31. John' W. Dillinger Sr„ 73-year-old father of the nation's public enemy No. 1, awaited word from his son today before visiting him at the Lake county jail in Crown Point. “I expect to hear from John any time,’ the elder Dillinger said. “He may want me to see about hiring him a lawyer.” The father, a respected farmer who has lived near here for many years, said he w'asn’t certain just when he could get away. “I didn’t have any clean ‘dress shirts’ on hand so I sent a couple to the lqjmdry this morning. They’ll be back Saturday. I also have to find some way to get to Crown Point, because I haven’t any car.” LATE RETURNS SWAMP INCOME TAX OFFICE 3,000 Awaited Deadline Before Mailing Is Estimate. Four hundred bags of mail containing approximately 3,000 income tax returns wpre received at the state house today, Clarence Jackson, gross income tax director, reported. The deadline for filing was at midnight last night. Approximately $200,000 in cash was taken In at the income tax office yesterday as 5,000 person filed returns.

Happiest Birthday of All/ Says Roosevelt

By United Prem WASHINGTON, Jan. 31. Swamped Gy thousands of gifts and messages. President Roosevelt today looked upon his fifty-second birthday as the happiest of his life. The chief executive, remembered by friends at home and abroad, by plain citizens and reigning kings, wound up a nation-wide celebration in his honor last night by appealing for a national consciousness in the fight against infantile paralysis. Himself a victim of the disease, Roosevelt took cognizance of efforts to raise funds for the Warm Springs Foundation by observing: “Warm Springs, through the generous gifts which are being made to the foundation, will be able to increase its usefulness nationally, especially in the field of infantile paralysis. "We shall be able to take more people and I hope that these people will be able to come to us on the recommendation of doctors in every state of the Union. I want to stress, however, that the problem of the crippled child is so great that in every community and in every state the local facilities for caring for the crippled need the support and the interest of every citizen. “Let us well remember that every

BRIBED CHICAGO COPS, SAYS HARRY PIERPONT; REPORT HAMILTON SLAIN

DILLINGER IN INDIANA CELL; UNDER GUARD

‘Got Me Too Quick in Tucson,’ He Says at Crown Point. (Copyright, 1934. by United Press) CROWN POINT, Ind., Jan. 31. John Dillinger, Indiana desperado, today clung to a vanishing hope for “one more chance’’ to shoot his way out of anew tight place, this time the Lake county jail. Under the muzzles of submachine and riot guns, Dillinger sat in his jail cell, awaiting trial on charges of murdering policeman William P. O'Malley of East Chicago. Mrs. Lillian Holley, Lake county’s woman sheriff, took elaborate precautions against affording another opportunity to shoot it out. The long-sought outlaw was placed in her charge last night after he had been brought back to his old stamp-ing-grounds in an airplane. Dillinger entered the jail last night with one regret, that he had been unable to “shoot it out’ with Tucson (Ariz.) police, who were too quick on the draw for the notorious outlaw. “Got Me Too Quick” “They got me too quick. I couldn't use a pistol that was on the dresser against a gang *of cops with submachine guns,” Dillinger complained. “I had a Tommy gun in my grip, but that didn’t do me much good when they took me by storm.” Indiana authorities charged that in the past, Dillinger has shot it out with police, but had all the advantages such as a bullet-proof vest, a machine gun and equally wellarmed companions behind him. It was just such a shooting, the machine gunning of policeman William P. OCMai'ey. in .East Chicago, that will be the basis for murder charges against Dillinger. If convicted he may be electrocuted. Sixty-five Chicago and Lake county officers met Dillinger yesterday when he landed at the Chicago municipal airport in an airplane in custody of four Indiana officers, after a trip of more than 2,000 miles. Ten squad cars filled with police escorted Dillinger over fifty miles of highway to this city, where he was turned over to Sheriff Holley. Dillinger appeared tired when he arrived here and immediately went to bed when* he was placed in his cell. ' Gets More Jovial Although glum and hostile at the beginning of his trip—when he w : as whisked out of Arizona a few hours before habeas corpus proceedings could halt his removal—Dillinger later appeared more jovial. “I guess my only bad habit is robbing banks,” Dillinger said. “I smoke very little and don’t drink much. Dillinger said he would “shoot it out with officers” if I had half a chance.” The prisoner insisted that he was not guilty of “half the crimes they’ve pinned on me /luring the past three months.” During the last leg of his airplane trip Dillinger became air-sick. It was his first airplane ride. TIME UP FOR IIiSULL Must Leave Greece by Midnight, Washington Told. By United Press WASHINGTON, Jan. 31.—Samuel Insull, former public utilities magnate of Chicago, must leave Greece before midnight tonight, the American legation at Athens informed the state department today.

child and indeed every person who is restored to useful citizenship is an asset to the country and is enabled to ‘pull his own weight in the boat.’ In the long .run, by helping this work we are not contributing to charity but we are contributing to the building up of a sound nation. “The fund to which you contribute undoubtedly will permit us to extend the facilities of Warm Springs in a greater degree than before. I like to think, and I would like each one of you who heart me to remember, thaf what you are doing means the enriching of the life of some crippled child. I know and you know that there could be no finer purpose than our will to aid these helpless little ones.” In conclusion, the President extended his thanks to the thousands whft sent him greetings. “I thank you,” he said, "but lack the words to tell, you how deeply I appreciate what you have done on what is to me the happiest birthday I ever have known.” Approximately $4,000,000 was believed today to have been realized on the 6,000 or so "birthday balls” and dinners held throughout the country in honor of President Roosevelt and for the purpose of endowing the Warm Springs Foundation.

Entered as Second-Cla Matter at PostoiT.-ce. Indianapolis

Paid Thousands of Dollars to Keep Officers From Turning Terror Mob In, Asserts Trigger Man. NEVER MISSED MEAL, CLAIMS MAKLEY ‘Kill-Crazy’ Gangster Says Bullet-Riddled Body of Aid Was Tossed Into River % After East Chicago Stickup. BY BASIL GALLAGHER Times Staff Writer GOLDEN STATE LIMITED, EN ROUTE TO INDIANA, LIBERAL, Kan., Jan. 31.—Harry Pierpont, captured member of the ‘terror mob,” told Captain Matt Leach and newspaper men today that he paid “thousands of dollars” to members of the Chicago police force for silence during the recent stay of the gangsters in that city. Pierpont’s statement was corroborated by Charles Makley, also a member of the gang of Indiana convicts who are being returned to Michigan City aboard this train. “The cops in Chicago put the ‘heat’ on us a number of times,” said Pierpont, “and I have given a police officer there as much as SI,OOO a week not to turn us in.” Pierpont also stated that Chicago police fired bullet holes into their own windshield after they failed to catch John Dillinger, mob leader, when he evaded a trap near a Chicago doctor’s office in November. “Dillinger did not fire a single shot during that chase,”

said Pierpont. “The cops put the bullet holes in their owh car to show how tough the pursuit had been. They’re not only crooked, but yellow.” Pierpont refused to say exactly how many times the gang visited Indianaoplis while they were at large, but admitted that their visits numbered more than a score. Denying that they had lived in a swamp near Indianapolis, Makley said that the gang had not missed a "meal or a bed” since their escape from the state prison. Pier--pont told -the following sto'.’y; "One night I went to an Indianapolis newspaper office and stayed in it for nearly half an hour. It was the day the afternoon papers printed the story of Captain Leach receiving the book from a wellwisher entitled “How to Bea Detective.” “I looked through the back files of the paper, reading the stories about our exploits—some of them not quite exact.” On the way out I ran into a man I had known all my life. I ducked my head and he failed to recognize me.” “Pierpont said he knew hundreds of people in Indianapolis, having gone to school there. Hamilton Reported Dead The bullet-riddled body of John Hamilton, one of the Dillinger terror mob leaders, was tossed into a river in the Calumet following holdup of the National bank of East Chicago, it was reported today. Officers en route to Chicago and Michigan City (Ind.) state prison with Harry Pierpont, Russel! Clark and Charles Makley voiced the belief that Hamilton is dead of bullet wounds he received in the East Chicago holdup in which patrolman Patrick O’Malley was slain. Hamilton, like t|>e trio on the train, an escaped Convict, is alleged to have been one of the four or five mobsters who, armed with bullet-! proof vests, fought a gun battle with O’Malley and other officers defend- i ing the bank. His bulletproof vest is believed to have been shattered by a slug j which split in two parts and penetrated his body. Vest of Cheap Make The vest he wore, it is reported, was of a cheap variety and did not protect his groin and upper part of! his chest. Other bullets are believed to have penetrated these parts of his body. Supporters of the latest theory as to Hamilton’s whereabouts believe he was loaded into an automobile by his fellow mobsters and died while in the car. His body was heaved into a river when the gang crossed a bridge, It is reported. Police found blood splotches in the later abandoned automobile which indcated one of the fleeing mobsters had been wounded critically. Further questioning of Pierpont, alleged trigger man of the Dillinger mob, indicated that John Dillinger merely was the titular head of the gang and served as custodian of the treasury. It long has been the contention of Captain Matt Leach of the Indiana state police that Pierpont was the real leader of the gang and that his was the mind that planned details of holdups which netted approximately a quarter of a million j dollars. Pierpont practically admitted, in conversations with Captain Leach, to being the "brains” of the mob. Where formerly the mobsters and their women had been blithe and sometimes defiant, -they now were subdued, so subdued that for many hours on the train police were alarmed fearing the calm before the storm. Captain Leach and his men, armed with shotguns, stood nervously at each end of the prison car. They recalled reports which have persisted for several days that henchmen of the gangsters were coming westward to free the prisoners. Even the thin-lipped Pierpont, i'

HOME EDITION PRICE TWO CENTS Outside Marion County, 3 Cents

who screamed threats and defiance at Captain Leach in the Tucson jail, had changed utterly. As the train rolled eastward the terrific tension in the prison car loosened. Mary Kinder snuggled up to her gangster lover in one seat. Opposite them, Russell Clark, still suffering from the blows he received from Tucson police, sat with his head cupped in his hands. Behind the trio, Makley, looking for all the world like a prosperous salesman in his neat gray suit and silver-rimmed eyeglasses, gazed at the desert scenery.'”* ■ Confer in Whispers For several hours the men and the woman conferred in whispers, several times heads were seen to shake negatively. Then Pierpont said: “It's curtains for all of us!” Mary sighed and clutched her lover’s arm. Makley looked sadly out of the window. At this moment, Captain Leach walked through the train, Pierpont sent a request to the state officers for a talk. In the conversation conducted first in low tones and then rising to the louder tones of a heated argument revealed the peculiar code of the gangster. “I'm not going to apologize for calling you names in Tucson,” said Pierpont. “I just want to explain a little bit. I know I’m going to get the ‘hot seat,’ and I’m going to show you that I’ll take it like a man.” Speech Breaks Ice This speech broke the ice between the police officers and the prisoners. "No apologies are necessary between policemen and criminals,” said Leach. “You’re in my custody for a long trip and we may as well be as friendly as possible.” Captain Leach and the prisoners began to compare notes on the exploits of the “terror mob” which left a trail of murder and robbery in a score of states for more than four months. “I was in Indianapolis a lot, while the police were looking for us,” Pierpont volunteered, “and once I was so close to you, near the statehouse, that I could almost touch you.” The gangster said nothing today of his admitted plans to kill Leach. “Yes Matt, that’s so,” Makley chimed in, “and we held one thing especially against you. That was the dirty deal you gave Johnny Dillinger in Chicago when he was trapped outside of a doctor's office last November. Why didn’t you give the guy half a chance? A sporting chance?” “I Wasn’t There” "Chance, hell," said Leach. "But just for your own information, I want to tell, you that I wasn’t in Chicago at that time. The Indiana squad car was loaned to the Chicago police, but I wasn't there.” Duripg the. copyersqtjon the prisoners were careful not to incriminate themselvees by any open admissions regarding their participation in “jobs,” but they filled out many of the details unknown to Leach. He said later that he gleaned much valuable. information from the talk.. All three convicts agreed that they had underestimated the Tucson police force. From their conversation, it was learned that powerful underworld connections in Arizona had brought the “terror mob” to Tucson for a haven. "If I had to go sticking up. banks in Arizona I’d do better going back to work,” was Pierpont’s explanation of the “terror mob’s” declaration that they merely had gone to Tucson to take “the heat off,” and not to commit bank robberies. “There are only two highways out of the state,” he added. “And I have no regrets about any banks I ever stuck up,” said Makley. "If there’s any difference between gangsters and banksters, I think its in our favor.” “I take from the bankers what they have taken from the people.”