Indiana American, Volume 13, Number 4, Brookville, Franklin County, 23 January 1846 — Page 1
AM
H 'A. Our Country Onr Country's Interests- and our Country's Friends. BY c. F. CLAUSCSOX. BROOKVILLB, FRA.XKLIN COCXTV, IXDIAA, FRIDAY, J AXUAUY 23, 184G. VOL,. XIV. Xtf 4.
Tuesday. Jan. 13th. in the House Mr. Osbim of L. from the Select Committer, report? back the bill to provide for the funded debt of the State, and continuing the Wabash and Erie Canal to Evansville, with several smeiiJmeni?, guarding the right of the Slate, providing for an extension of the term of credit for Canal lands to five years, w hic'i being concurred in.
Mr Clymer moved to amend, by providing crininati.ms c.m'.d thst vol? shall be taken upon the adopt- v"" the adoption.
ion of the law at the next August election, after which, if a majority shield appear in its favor, ihe Governor shall issue his proclamation aonouncirg the fact, nr.d be empowered to carry the Jaw into effect. Mr. CLYMEIi spoke of the importance
of the question, referred to the adoption u
INDIANA LEGISLATURE. j not go into effect, unless a majority of the j known their will; but, in the absence of rE3 ro;l TiJE iNDi.vs.v American.) ' PeAPleal ,,1f August election, kTibI! go forjsiich instructions, he should not shrink ..' , it, &c. from voting for any measure that lie be-
Dc"bate On the State DeDt. ! Mr. DAVIES favored the bill, with the lieved calculated to promote the general I
amenamrni just proposed, lie wisnea u j interests oi me pt opie and or the Mate, sumbitted to the people. Mr. THOMPSON said he occupied a Mr. ED WARDS had some doubt how lie very independent position. If he voted shon'd vote; but. after mature teflection, i for or against the bill, he was threatened he felt bound by his convictions, to vote equally with the displeasure of a portion against the amendment. His constituents (of his constituents. He was oneof the were, so far as he knew, unanimously in j Senators whom 1S3S, raised his voice and favor of paying so much of the debt a? v e j voted against the Internal Inptovement had received value for, an 1, if such d is-! system. He regretted, and continued to
be made, he would fa-I regret the passage of the law which
The State agent sa s i brought it into being. He did nt,howe-
no such discriminations can be made, and he has the best oppoitunity of knowing. His constituents received no benefit from the system but they were practical men, and they knew the debt must be paid Hy all. The amendment he view-edtasan attempt to ride down and kill the bill, bv an
the seven great works of internal improve- r.nn appeal io popu.ar prejudice, it prement in 1838. which he considered the , sumed that the people were dishonest, and
Ou-.,r,.t:'Ts ot an u"'tai;".tiCeu ioi ai i-miio.-: !' .- i.. tiuutiii.i.u iiric uy rr.nr.a'im ""That system failed. The estimates ishnessthan by honor. It was an attempt of the Engineers made it appear thai the to create a contempt illo hobby for the esv:e:w would cost oulv ten millions, when preial benefit of demagogues, and was calit U r ve ! bv f ct. it would have cost " culled w defeat and p-.istpone the meas$3). i)aO)J. The same thing may hap- i "re of arranging the State debt, by placing
aT i t; and thought it was no more ,,,e q
pea
j o-n oi li
t ) submit ? people.
nl
of e.Tipr.:ntse.
directly to the decisHe viewed this as a a m'ddle arrou and
h '.: i th agree t; it. ston fro .n h further.
Mr
ance of the question, and acknowledged . tint members occupied ticklish grounds. ; lie had no ioeol vitws himself, and wished : b'jislaie for the w hole State, m l r.ot i for a pan. Mr. S. viewed the remaiks of' the gcaileman from Elkhart, as far from the ficu connected with the adoption of : the Int-'rn.a'. Improvement, as the earth ; was fr t the m on. Tiie system, by ad-; dressing itself to the interests of individual i metu hers, scareu f.it'aJ e.VMijh to can y j it through. Til? propoiti-.:a now before
II ins? had n i an -logy wha'over to t. It was a proposition to pay the ho;i-
siion at the mercvof the dema
gognes glosses and misrepresentations. He was a Dem eratic Wing, and not a subteranean democrat; and was not afraid to take the responsibility to do right, and rely upon the intelligence, the sense of
of his constituents for
i fri;i is of the measure would In t'ic? absence of anv exptes-
s foiistitnents, he could not go ' iio:!or and justice
; his jii.-tification.
; Mr. S I AFP said we are but morta.s at best, and always liable to err. W'c should
therefore be more tokranl in speaking of the eiror and mistakes of our predecessors. We belong to a representative democracy, and not one in which the people can legislate in masses without the interposition of
er, on that account, think it his duty to abuse all who diffeied with him on that occasion. He had pledged himself to do
no act to increase the public debt of the j and
State, or to incur any new debt. The bill, with a few amendments, be would approved of; because he could show its pro
visions could not involve trie people, as i
the money advanced to make the canal would be made a special charge upon the canal itself. We shouli do something to aid the people in paying the public debt, without a resort to direct taxation. This great work, (the Wabash and Erie Canal) furnished the means of releavingthe people of one hall of ihedebt and the accruing interest, bringing the balance of the debt within the means of the State to pay. Our creditors have in express terms, agreed to look to that work and to that alone for one half of the whole amount of our indebtedness. What can be more fair and reasonable than that? Are we never to make any arrangement for the paymcntof the principal or interest of the millions of public debt which we justly owe our creditors? As to the three millions of bonds
hie duly to support it. If any here know their constituents to be opposed to it, lie should vote against it. Mi. M I), then referred to tde first section of the bill, to show the amount of interest that would have to
I be paid up to 1853, and that it would a1 mount to up-vards of $327,000 per annuio,
making the Internal Improvement debt amount to upwards of $14,413,200 in 1S53. and if the other debts of the State be added, the entire debt of the State that year will amount to upwards of $20,000,000. Mr. M'D. challenged any gentleman to gainsay the truth of these statements. This bill, it is true, provides for ;aying $5.5"J7,000 on the public debt, and by taking this from the $20,000,000. it will show the precise condition of the State. What is the nature of tlie property which
we are giving for this sum of rising five
a half millions of dollars. Wegive;
He, as one of those.
disclaimed any object such as that of kill-
the former case, the different interests of hension. upon the part of some, as to the the State combined together and bargain- j motives of those who favor the ndnntim.
1 T . I I 1 . . . t? I '
ea oi me wnoie cine; ana now, one csec- 0p amendment
tion attempts io sen ott tue wnoie otaie ; tim (b mam Amxntal knnnfir !
v. vi wwviw. ubii i .iL. Kill ft. . . 1
vhc trdi. tic na iiu ir;puuiattFi t unu he hoped, if ihis bill was adopted, it would he with great unanimity. We should as-
paring his fellow-citizens to foreign des-1 B,""c a r ' - Dots, and assimilate the bill before 1(S losing ,t, and d nothing that may be cal-
it,,.,.,...: r .: i cuiRted to excite a spirit of opposition a
appeared to him to be laboring under men-
Mr. SECREST regretted to hear the ir
relevant harangue of the gentleman from' Lake & Porter. If he was serious in com- i
tal aberration; and reminded him of
character of Hamlet in Shakspeare.
the!
mong the peop'e. He
and wished il perfected.
disliked the bill, He did not be-
Ue j lieve it practicable, and his object in sup
One objection was that it
had never rad the Cnrt Jnmnsl an.l hart i mriiamem was io per.eei us
nnif1fa Until ho fnlrl tU IT.anea fltot ft. A ;
P.,rt .If s, fl.i ";,. K,.t ! ave a preference to one class of creditors
It was a new idea to him.
provisions.
vim uruhci7. i . . . , firPl' flnnlhpr m inp mncl nnirnrtlir nnr.
was new idea to him. He talks ofi, . . ' ........... .
progressive democracy, and boasts of it;!'"," , , I T nenameiu k. ;r;. .u. J ,., j :r. i adopted, and then he wished to see the
Hllinnn. ri..j -u .l, I i mc u4iiiiidUH; miu iiik- i . . . , . ,
,v,. m,o ui mnu.ui w om ,-. J.,-.,,;.,,, f ,., .,: T ..A i'"i iiciictiru ny milcilUlllPUIS. IIP nonEQ cuts, basins. &c, ail the lands hereto- '"""doctrine of repudiation tne Lord, opportunity would be offered to fore granted, all. he debts due for lands e us from it. It was a bhght of a m.l-1 J emenio Oliver Thei heretofore sold -c, Mr M'D. then en- ewthat ''ped never won. d befa his LS nfJ n tered into a ca cu at on of t ie cost of the i country. He had been in debt, but he , ,. , , ' . , ..,., . . u ... 1 ' l," ! . , ii i , j 1 1 r of the countrv took one course, and the canal Kast ana est of the 1 irpcanoe,' thanked God he nevei bought a dollar of . - , ,, with a view of showing we ave l,e Hond-' his obligations helow nar nor wU h ! fn?i8 another, the latter were generally
hri,tr nrr t t .-... - :. C : ' ' found to be right. Tliiswas aqnestion
Licriini ins irieuus io uo so. lie laiKS aooui i . , . I- ... ... .... ii i that rose immeasurably above mere parents constituents being about to be 6old. ! , , - . . . , , - ? ,-, ,r. cr , .. , , or local interests, and he hoped it should W he offers to sell them? The exaggera-f. . , ,T , , 1 ...
i,. .- , . , , ue so ircaieu. lie naa noi examiuea ine
ofa .. ...v. ...s
..... w. .vi . " 1 ... iuvi n .vr , ,, , , . I - .. . . i HA rilll .1 nut CAA It ... ft t.. ArAhAnt riii
porat.on who would place tue.r minions in , , " ,cl " " , ted to such investigations would lake pains charge of the work, and-as the British '. dala- II was llke h,s calculation upon the o inves!irte jt c ' Bondholders would have a controlling ma. Bank scrip debt, which is only a little over , .,,''." j..v u
half hut u hirh h nv-.fap.tn m-ka mil. "'"t- " " '"" "" !"'' , '
holders property that cost the State $5, 900,000. If they would wipe out the debt with this, it would not he so bad; but that is not the case. It would be vested in tlic
management and under the control
corporation for they are,
i bill witli so much care as he could have i wished; but he hoped gentlemen habilua-
nPeA JtrAtu memhoMofti.;. Hr.,.c 1 li.... Mr s Hab r.,i-i i'i,a ;iini WJ8l"sl-ayf!1. "oes 47. The qeestion
willing to sell their fellow citizens as serfs ! assumed as to the trustees, and said he en- i W.as ab"ut taken on the amendmenl,
. - ,.r., m;..,nunjj .1. j Mr. Rl Uonald again addressed the
tnd slaves tn this nrrnrspd tnnnev cornora- ,u . . j wnen Mr. M Uonald again
t.onl He tiusted not. He could not have intenli,,n of lne rarticularIy with ref-1 " '? ' dIef"1!ry cove;sal'uthouglit that the members of the Committee ,v, -i .,, ... t Mr. DOW LING regretted to see
ArAllAA t. lhA
....,1,1 V. ..l l: . l., .... ..1.1 I.. ... I
: riorhta vr .-.rofiilliy n.i-.r.t.rt
was iiot asiiamea to avow mmsell a repudiator;but there was a large sum more
agents. It was therefore incumbent on the loan inree lotmnsoi our punnc dent lor Representatives of the people to discharge! which we have received value and about theirlegislative duties to the best of their ! which there is no dispute and shall we abilities, without so unusual a mode as re- j never make a beginning to pay that. His fen ing laws to their direct d Tision. when constituents were not directly interested n Mich method of confirming .aw was ; in the system of interna) improvement; but know n to the coostuuti.in. Mr.S. then 1 that had nothing to do with the question of
took a review of the origin and progressof
the system of Internal Improvement; and denied thai the Engineers did deceive the
people, and insisted that their
lb li)
est del: t of the S;ate, and to sustain its honor and reputation! He rather approved of the plan cf submitting the proposition to the neorje. nor thefoina in which it
was drawn Th hill hon!d he fi.-t nased. 1 fourteen, than ten millions of di.li.nrs. He raie the taxes to that amount.) for the
a:ad then submitted to the people for con-1 contended that the people were as much purpose of paying the State debt, and get-
foinvuion if such measure was deemed ; l-avor of it as their uepresenlatives, and j"ng ""t oi our accumulating uiihcu,ties.
citimates ! ents were willing to be taxed Scents
l" :he expense oft he system were nearer i the $100 (and the biil only proposed
. i ,
the meaning and
nllal latit CAitUra i.-Ii.eA
..r..n.. i.j position manifested to retard the progress
made freemen the Slaves of Foreign lire- "Ate Zn ' "f ,he bi" al ll"s l "our 6 oVlock.)parkers and Bmdhcldcrs. II, then attempted . b ' ne Hiem without the : tj ag ; .
for which no value has been received, Iiej w snow that u,c tax would oe unequal , V ,t . . ' ,lt ' l" ailV ! amendment, which any one could under-' ment on the grounds f expediency
us opcatinns, ami mat it would near neav-; r" infsiuiif me: i-nBll. ii, .nUn,,,,;,,,!,,,! i,
ily on the poor, and that undue influence ! trustees will act fraudulently, and, by put-! ' . , . ,. had been cmplojcd to carry it throrgh the; ting the worst estimate upon the standard ! Another motion was made to adjourn - House, and. among oLers. one from fhilip ! of human virtue, takes il for granted that i ' a es ' "oes Hone.of New York, stating that a Savings UhPv will act in !,. wnrci n,,H nnr. The question was then taken on the
Institution for the benefit of the Poor in !.,,", ,.,.. irn,.. ,i ,i, k.m :.i i "mendment to refer the bill back to the
that city held a large amount, ($175.000,) ! a :.,: ...i-.;.. an,, ,L c,m 1 people, and decided in the negative-ayes
Indiana B.mds. Mr. P. Hone he appear-1 , , ' . . . , !. ' . . 41, noes 49.
ed to know, and he knew him to be a nch ": r" ""?,, Z , A T1,e lhe" adjourned, man. who rode in a splendd carriage, and! n)lU,n? hls presumptions, all human Gov- J
could buv out the farms of half of the mem- j ernnaenis would oe a delusion and a larce. bers of the House, without missinrr it. He, i Governments must be founded on the vir- j
not the poor laborers and mechanics, was me and intelligence of the people; but, if
the man that was most interested in the Bonds. The memorial was sent in on pur-
paying the public dew. I here was no way of getting rid of il, or shifting off the responsibility of paying it. His constitn-
on to
njcessarv. an 1 if a mij anty did not vote ! referred to facts to prove the truth of his j To effect this, we should act as a against it, it sh uli be t!u law. It was a i position. The estimates of the Engineers i brothers, and not under the infl
a hand ol
nonce of
mre question of
or repudiating it,
paying an honest debt
It is a onesiiiv'i of inor
alsof wrb'ht and wrong; and we mul j hoped the b.ll would either pass or be de-
thke either one side or the other. Beside fea.ed by a direct vote. He did not know
whetliei ihe amendments were contitn
ere not at fault, so much as the chang" i imaginary ai:d distinct interests. It was a
in the price of produce and of labor. He
great moral qustioii, in which the honor and reputation of every citizen of Indiana was interested, and should be so treated by every Representative upon that floor. Mr. T. argued to show that the Bondhold-
pose to operate on the sympathies oi mem bers. The bill was calculated to make the rich Bondholder richer, and the poor one poorer; because it proposed to pay those who should advance mo icy first, and, of course the poor man couldn't spare it, and would therefore have to wait. Another objection, to the bill was thai it proposes to establish an office in the city of New York. If it was established here, the peapie might get a little of th3 money be'ore it left the State. Another objection was,
that the interest had to ba paid in the city
this Government is not a pure democr.-.cv
The people cannot, and should not. be in-' tion tl. The constitution did not invest the vested, in en masse, with the power of leg- people ith the pnvvr of passing laws, or Ulation. It wa im:ractic;-ble and nnex-! rejecting them, in their primary capacity.
peoient that they should do the business j 'l was a proposition that required little was better than no bread; so that on lhat by their Representatives. It wrt the duty j consideration. Under it, the State and j score, he thought there need be no appre- ... ..... I i.Ani., ...n;rt. J r... i..ir ..r - IArizz'..... ITiKa n..,lv1.i.4n. l, .. A..A
. the State debt: and of course, it would not estimated the value ol tne W abash and Erie "llu i i-..ni -..up, ...c o.i-
- I
and could not, make it worse for the peo- Canal, it was iheir own look out. We had ! pie. The cinal is believed by many to be i nothing to do vruh it. They were willing ! r - . i. . :. i ' ,. ; i . .....l..a . J :r : i
i ot on nroruiii, huu tiy uiners n is vamcu j inc huh n ij'f:niiiitiii; ttiiu, 11 i iui urti ! I'At-tt It . V a nc.x r-..f ilino i Ant ' mil fin im n rf 1 1 J On if t tll AOOrol A
ih. horaiic.a if it !io rT n : ti' ntir ailvantar-A nt oiviiio Aiir hnnHc
H. R., Jan. 14, 1316. The bill providing for the public debt, .. .u. - 1 f 11.11
they a.edestnuieof these qualities, why I"1"" ' "i , , 7, u V not do away with all governments at once ! Vf ''ft'1 Van sborn "r and go back to a state of nature? The Daa is S aiif.eld, Carr and Carnan. ad-
un ssea ine iiouse unui ine adjournment
for dinner. We may hereafter find room for these speeches.
ersWOUldOe C.ad to accept the l-ronosl- of Xew V..rfc. whi,-h. as the .liflVronr.. in
tion. upon the principle lhat half a loaf 1 exchan-T.. i three tier cent, will have the
etfect of making us pay three per cent additional interest. Another objection was.
that, as the lands have ,-bcen valued high.
ponsihility, and to act upon the presump
tion that they are honest, and arc wiiimg tn pay tln-ir debts.
He viewed it as wron in anotner res
pett. It was implied by distrusting the ; vry highly, integriivof our constituents, and should i the views of
never receive his sanction. He had con-j value, we gel in exchange for it ne half fileneo in the inielligeivo and honesty of ;four State debt; and, ifit should pay the en;nases, and would scorn to repre-1 "re than that, the overplus goes to the t nt his constituents if he could supp se or?lit of the State.
Mr. RILEY said he felt it due to himself to explain his position. His constituents were i:i fivir.)f piyitt; these bonis for winch we have received valu1; but oppo-
sltvia tnejn- i u l( P '. 'OS ii utiiifs iot w hich no vaiue
berssav thev have n interest in, and , has been teceive i. He did r.ot see why
that they favored the dishonoring doctrine r.f repudiat'nin. The btll before the House propo-s to take off on-? half the State deb1; and to n it n.non a work, f tlie Wa
bash a id Ene Canal) which
at 50 cents on the S100. Il seemed to
him a plain proposition, and one
j which there should bono difference of j opinion. Mr. Thompson, on motion, gave
way for a motion to adjourn, which prevailed. AFTEXNOON 8rssI0S.
tnnny c mto-l wii
.f i
i
never hecna source-
of reve i.i u iht? treasury. Tins ait rue I j a gonl opportunity t ih a.? entertaining ; s ich opinion, t get rid of a moiety of the . p.ijL.a d?:t. Mr. S. t!i- entered into a siatistieil analysis of ill prop-asittoii , the on 1, tion of the State, finances, and the, consequence of the a lopti in of the bill in i rebicmg the public debt. Tiie conntv taxes of the Slate amount -j
tier on canal land will be unable to raise specie or its equivalent to pay the residue of his indebtedness tc this company. From the commencement of the session we had communication upon communication on the subject of ibis bill. We even allowed
a Wall-Street speculator to enme into our
about i Hall, and read us a lecture about elevating
the character of the State, intimating, H
we only consonted to tax ourselves, and
make the "rich richer, we would be a -ery nice people. Mr. M'D. referred to the Bankrupt law, one of the Democratic Whig measures; and taid that, if the Agent him
I sell" had not etolen fiom the State, his prin-
Mr. THOMPSON resumed his remarks, j cipals had, and he participated in the crime, he viewed the Question as one of paramount It is said, if we d nt pass that bill, we are
gentlemen should be afraid to refer Ihe : and vital importance. He had endeavored ; dishonest men; and yet we have not paid
matter to ihe people. They were ihe ; to show that we overlooked the probable, J the debt of the Revolution! Yes, these proper umpires. Mr. R. then told an ! profits of canals, and that we should be wil- ' great and goad men made no provision for ,. iia anA t.,i ..khoiiLih ho Hi t r.o i ling to give it tip and pledge it to get rid ! pay ing the debt contracted during that c-
see the snake :n the grass, be saw the grass shake, lie said gentlemen l.al talked
ed to as much as the tax levied for State . purposes; and by taking o.T five cents of the former and annlvin." it to the latter the i
of half of our public debt. O.n the other j venlful period. Why then, do we not abuse
, hand, if it should turn out to be profitable, j them, and call them repudiators. Mr, M'D ' n .4 a .rr..dt C.lili-.'fl fi rVr.'l3 liJ" SfflU ' rv-ii-a rr .-in rilnrO rtf tliA LnrriMo ICiV-
ab.u.t figuies not lying, but he had figured !liyt!i0provis-lon3of the b,Il. can reclaim sequences of '"associated wealth," which als . He said exclusive of the Bank debt, j Rnd Bra; t,kc pgessj,,,, r-f the canal. As Jelbrson pronounced the dynasty ot nations, the State debt was over $l$.0;X.(XlO. and j he understood the bill, onr bondholders can- He said if Indiana, by her conduct, in 1S53, would be more than S23.000.0O0. j not ask us for a cent of the money for whi-h should destroy the credit of every Slate jn Can ihe tax for such a debt be ever collect-; they are wil'ieg to take the canal; and, the Union, it would be a glorious and heed? lie di 1 not believe it could; and, if it j tnere.'ore, gentlemen who take eithe view j neficent achiev jtnent. The accursed credwa attempted revolution and not would o' the subject either as to the great value ; it system was a blight and a curse to the
. ... ... , i , .i . i in l ihtiiimh Inil s I ia noon A m -ui im; .n ' uiksikm 11 a ; laiiu, auu i lie euunei 1 1 ia buui ibiil-u. iiic
H d-y no ! thenia e, y" of their ,niht, would raise in j - -' a tcr will u be for posterity. Mr. M'lV n u.a iini o. ... tat. po,i.v wo.u ion , j j dilemma. It was an arrangement most i was a progressive Democrat, and he would je.-l to such a pmno;i'ion. ! 'TS1ilVV.i' -1 r v j . . , advantageous to the State, involving no j not give a copper for any Democrat that
ir. .VMiht l.t.ii was one of the Hep-' Jir.v.iimMiu u tot? ""'uiuiiitm dangerous consequences, and. in order to i was not; and then entered into a detail of
resent it iw, who, in 133, snpnoite-i the adopted, many members wouia icei 1 carry it out t,e litxcs neej 011iy iic raised . the relative principles of the Whir and , . . . ' . . .1.1 , ... ....... u:n at. r . ....... . ...in m r . . .
s'.eni 01 i:u -.-nal 1 nprovetn jnts. an I lie M'ont-u iiiiiu-iSJiiiMiiicuiii. ,.n. v. ir- ,,ne-iivenueiii 01 a cent on ine uouar. 11 ( ijemocratic parties, tie, however, prog.
ferred to bis coiiegne, and denied that his : he had a constituent who had 110! patriot- ressed backwards to fir.-t principles. Mr.
upon that '"bjecl inofferingihc amendment wa pnpu-j ism enough to bear ro small a tax to re-J M'D denied that (if the bill was passed.)
laritV. lie had 110 WISH IO oe a candidate, wen nncnu-u umi mm aeimm tue 1 11 count DC repeated m ins next, eessinn oi
Und d,d not think he ever should. He did ! State, he would not ask or covet his vote. the Legislature
rf.i t, He knew the people of I'errv well, and he a contract, it must stand
raise the taxes. His amendment proposed
no such ibis
He wished to have it go
did not believe there was a dishonest repu-
1 diator among them. He wished an amend
ment to the hiil
so as to protect tha rights
!ec by
It being in the nature of
if passed int;) a
law and accepted by the Bondholders. It could only be repealed by a revolution. Mr. M'D. denied the doctrine of the gen-
gentleman talks as if I had associated all !
my life with bankers and noblemen, and that I was the favorite and agenl of that class of people. He never saw a nobleman, and was never inside of a Bank but once in his life; and then he did not know the difference between discount and premium. The gentleman's progressive democracy in repudiating debts, might suit his constituents in the cranberry region, but t hey would never go down with the plain, blunt, debt-paying penpicofold Putnam. Mr. S. then entered upon some of the details of the proposition, and closed his eloquent and effective speech. Mr. CLYMER referred to the anxiety which seemed to prevail with reference to the fate oflhis biil. He should make no
1 allusion of a personal nature. He had of
fered his amendment in good faith; and if it should be ndopled. he pledged himself to vindicate the provisions of the bill bef ire his constituents, andVmploy his best exertions to secure for it their approval. He would be glad to make some arrangement with reference to the bonds for
which no money had been received; but. as to the balance, he would go as far as
any man in that House, or elsewhere, to pay the principal and interest of the honest debts of the State. Mr. C. referred to the remarks of Mr. Julian, lhat his amendment was a strange innovation upon the established laws of the State, and argued a great want of fairness in those who required such a resort to shield ihem from the responsibility of iheir own acts. It was neither a dastardly nor craven spirit to submit, in any case, to the expressed will of our constituents. Il was our duly to do so. Mr. C. then referred to the change in the views of the people of Jefferson, in lS3f, with reference to the system; and he did not think it strange lhat, with such weighty motives, addressed to their local interests, they should change. The Madison & Indianapolis Railroad would account for lhat. Mr. C. said, in conclusion, he believed the amendment was perfectly constitutional, fair, and expedient; and he warned the friends of the measure against voting against it, lest they lose friends, and thereby defeat the bill.
Mr. PESXINGTOX said, if he wishel
to defeat the bill ever so well, not ask a better mode of doing
AFTERNOON SESSION. In the afternoon, Mr. Clymer rose, to lay some additional information before the House, whicn had come into his possession
since yesterdav. He felt friendly to ihe I bill, and, if the amendment was adopted,!
much interest. The debt of ihe State vas contracted by onr agents, and we are liablefor its payment. Mr. X. said it was a mistake thai no law had ever been refer -ed back to the people for iheir approval or disapproval. It had been frequently done, even in our own State, when county seat qu jslions were at issue. &e. He wished the bill to pass, but he wished it to pass with the amendment. But gentlemen say now is the accepted time, and if ihe Star debt is not arranged now it never w ill be done. It is a mistake, the Bondholders will bo glad to comeback. He pledged himself if the bill passed with the amendment, to go home and adaocste it before his constituents. He wi-hed the bill to pass unanimously or nearly so, and not by a meagre majority. He did not know what were the views of the people as to this particular Un of paying the Slate debt, and this w as bis reasoning for wishing the bill refened for their decision. Mr. THOMPSON deprecated hasty an-? inconsiderate action upon this bill, and the disposition evinced by iis peculiar fr;em! to prevent it from going before the people. The people were capa' le of judgtrg of the bill, and they were the noi interested in its provisions, asthry will have 10 pay tlie money w hich it proposes to raise. Some say, if we do not p'ass the biil. we will lose the lands granted by Congress towards making the canal. If gentlemen do not wish to throw a firebrand simong ihe people, they s-hould adopt the suggestion of ihe member from Boone. He did noi come to legislate for the Wabash & Erie
Jig.j Canal, but for the benefit of the people of
the whole State, and was not afraid lo refer it back to the people. Mr.SLEETlI was in favor r.f the amend-
H
knew that gentlemen who had taken that
coutse, were branded ns repudialors and spoilers. He disclaimed any of ihese approbrious epithets as applicable to himself. He was in favor of discharging and paying the debt; but he wished to do it pnulei.tly and carefully. He was not himself, nor were his const itnen's, well acquainted with ihe bearings and consequences of the bill. He therefore wished it referred 10 the people. He did not know whether he should go for or against it, r.uiii ho had made further investigation into Us nature.
1 ie ootiu noiuers cao.e nere wuii every thing prepared and well digested, and ask the people's representatives to p.ct on th spur of ihe occasion. Where then, was tho impropriety in referring this matter
oacK to me people 1 he qifsiion in re
ferring it, is not to Qfk the people w hether
they will adopt Ihis peculiar mode of attaining that object. Thai is ihe object of the leference. Mr. S. ihen icferred to the State of Pennsylvania, where a similar
he would take pains, before his constilll- Proposition was reierreu 10 me people m ents, to explain the propriety of adopting j a s,,nllar ""a"- in orer ' how ,llal l" ;. Th...,ini.... , mr.m.,i.. ! course was noi an unprecedented one.
! 1 iiv uiivjOiivii o 11101111 utviii ! 1
and one upon which he was not prepared j
to act, without knowing the wishes of his constituents. Mr. C. said he had an im
portant document in his pnssission, which
na l prepared himself to bear all the abuse
heaped upon it by gent
lioor. He had, how ever, in the first instance, voted against the survev. but finallv
was driven into iis supn .rt bv the coiirce I not propose to kill the bill, or
ot public opmirtn. He then though great ! men were honest, and 'believed their fine!
spun ineories. Jir. . referred to the re -1 ,(1 t'1 people, ano sn mid go uome, nuu ( - .,pr-nns holding lands selected he the tinman from Wavne th.it a tJeoresentative
markscf Mr. S., a to our standing upon j endeavor to persuade them it was their in-; State from the grant made by Congress, j should act as he pleased, on so important a ticklish ground. The people were hottest. ! teresl to adopt it. He bel'oved the people j He had defined Ins pns-tion; and he hoped ; question, w hen he did not know what were
en j shiiiiifi be trusted: and hi ihf..r.j ; would do right, arid was not afraid to trust ' he should not do like a certain great man. ! the wishes of his constituents. He viewed
j who opposed in te senate the adoption ot j the btll a fraught with evil, as destructive
tlie Interna; improvement system, and men , ol the hrst interests 01 ine -Tiate. iij did . 1 1 . ... .1 , . 1 . . 1 1:. ... . . .
m i ia J- -.. . . . . . turneu m.i iu kiiu cicu mt u. neiiitrr i noi Know wutjiiiur ins c.itisi meats wee matter .0 their decision at the August elec- people wanted laws made, they sent up , . .mon,Wn, h ,drtnlAr: nT nn. w,i I A ... ,A Ar rnr,K!(. ... it. .,i,;.,. ,r
It; atld, I f.All.o hill if Ka u-ac .(riti.Ail - Ka 1i.l u'liitAtAr miffnl Ka Kia Aifh .-.in-
for so doing, he trusted in God the couatrv t ions, be should vote their will without hes- e.igu.-a wn i..ctn.iiuy ana siraignuor-
wouid not be. Mr. M'DOXALI) regarded the bill be-
the House as fraught with evil as
the State and
he could read for the information of the House. Mr. C. then read from a speech delivered by Mr. Butler, at the Canal Convention at Terrc-Hsiute lasl summer, in which he said that the Bonds were not ir. the hands of the Rothchilds, the Barings, &c, but in the hands of poor widows and individuals in humble lile. How then
could they advance two and a half millions of dollars towards completing the Wabash
& Erie Canal7 l!y ibis biil we cut off the poor bondholders for the benefit of the rich, and became repudiators of the debts due to the poor. Mr. C. warned gentleman to be upon their guard against adopting a measure of this kind w ithout first referring il to the decision of the peop'e. He was informed joy a member of the House to-day, mat if he voted for this pro
position, the Central Canal would beta
ken into consideration. This, said he, shows the unhallowed combinations that are sometimes resorted to in order to tarry a measure of this kind. Mr. Secresl asked Mr. C. to name the gentleman, and to locate tlie charge. It was improper to make such vague and general intimations;
he hoped the gentleman would consent to i
be mote specific. Mr. C. declined answering, but said he di I not mean to implicate any member of the House. Mr. M'Donald said if called upon he could prove lhat such overtures had been made Mr. II AZLER IGG said he thought there might be a compromise made between the ulira friends and the ultra enemies of the bill. If tbp bill be passed by a meagre ma-
1 . .... .1 - -. ...
he would 1 Jor,yi l,,e minority win go nome, mi.repil than to! pscnl its provisions, talk about our being
1
was in fvor ofihe proposition of the gent-i io iheir decision.
ieman from Elkhart to submit the whole! Mr. JULIAN said hf retofore when the'
tore
tion. 1 he people knew as much as iheir iheir Representatives here to do ITS . J .
-.-.!Trt-mam es mev h:l r...n ViarH 1 iai- Hi.l ..t m-a ih lrc thpv cent tin
horse sense they had judgment; and why ! a new set of representatives next ihen distrust their decision! He agreed j year, to repeal and amend it. This it w as a question of great and momentuous : was the usual mode of doing business liith-
tnagni'.ude It was a question w hether the ! erto, and he could not see why it should 1 transferring the property of
State of Indiana shall give up all her avail- ; be departed from in ihe case under eonsidable resources between heaven and earth. S eration. We should hove the moral indeto one class of her creditors and repudi- pendenee to do right, and trust to tha good ate the debts due to another class of credi-! sense and intelligence of the people for tors. He wanted ihe law made plain, so ; our justification. He, at least, should adept that every one could understand it. If the' that course, without ihe fear of consequenIntetnal Irr.provemenl system had been ' ces. It was a bad, and dangerous princieubmuted to the people, can any one sup-j pie, to adopt. It afford :d tho demagogue pose it would have been adopted. He ! an opportunity to object to particular feacame here a canal man; he had election-! lures of the bill, regardless of the correctcered for it, and his opponent against it, ' ness of its general feature?. No bill, onatd was in favor of receiving the lands der such opportunities to cavil, can stand Rented by Congress, which, with the pro-; the test of the captions and fault-finding.
s of the Nortnern portion of the canal, 1 He came here as a moral and independent
sufficient to complete
vote for the amendment now rending. f The debt is due and accumulating, and! was contracted by ihe duly authorized 1 agents of the people of the Slate. It was j a question of honesty and integrity; ihe terms were fair and easily complied with;! and;we should either repudiate or pay. ! There should be no shuffling or evasion! ... 1
anout it. ihe time had now arrived, and we should now take the question. He was
itation. The arrangement proposed to ra- wa,u is;;c rienu trom 1 uwibiii. fertho bill to a high court for its decision It done him good to hear it; and he hoped to a court composed of 1 30 ,000 members: every honest man would speak out. who, if they decide erroneoasly, the conse- Mr. HEXTOX said he differed with
the people, to the British Bondholders. If j quences will be upon their own heads. Mr. some of the gentleman who had preceded ... . . . 1. : . 1 . . 1 t,r.f-. . 1 . . . . . 1 . .. . . 1 ' ... ..
mere was any inmjr amusing ucui ine ac- .u mtii nisiory vi me Bargain I him. He did not think the State was to
cursed bit! it was the circumstance 01 its ; and sale pnncip.e 01 legislation that gave j blame- jt was 1 . 1 A . . . . . . . . . W l. ; L! . I. .a l. I ,.....,..1 I .n ......... .n .. n . I I
DI rt 11. iniliu in;ec jvara ftifi .iu.i-:oiriu mm1: i.hciuii i u,m u cm in f) biciii . ! , t, .r.l:tn...
I nose v. iu i-Vi' seu mis in-jaaure ate can
sold to British Brokers, &c. &c , and ar ouse the public indignation against it. It was of little importance who held nnr bonds, whether poor widovs or rich brokers, or a combination of both we owe ihe debt, and il should and mut be met. Mr. Vandeveer was glad to hear the proposition of his friend from Boone. If the amendment be adopted, he for one. would return home and advocate the approval of the law by the people. He pledged himself to do all he could to commend it to the adoption of his constituents, notwithstanding he did not like all its provisions. Bin believing it to be ths best that can I e done, he would not stand back about trifle, lie believed with Mr. Butler that ihe
comb promised, if elected, 4and placed on the Executive nest, he would hatch some-1 ihinj. H9 has been two years in ihe pains of labor, and what has he brought forth?! A Wall-Street broker, the agent of British ' Bondholders, aided by our worthy Govern- j
or and twenty -four rnid ives, have beer, in labor, and what have they all brought forth! They have brought forth a Democratic, British Whig Bantling, a perfect monster, with a web feet, and a mouth ga-
of acres of land.
cer
he believed amply
Jt 1 ... I. 1
! l,ei ugms in nis possession, auu ur , cheon to aipt.ase jl9 voracious appetite.--Mr. CARR, of L. moved an amendment j was not afraid to'discharge his duty. He Before any member votes for the bill, he the amend meat whieh was accepted by was willing to obey the instruction! in any j should first understand its provision, and. Mr. Ciymer, providing that ih law shall and all as where they aboold make ' if be thinks. Via people fr,-r jt, then It ie
1 nintr 1 n ett-.llnii m i ! I infi
... ,. i '..'4 v d . i 1 1 ir , .,.,,....-
agent to aci lor nis cr.nniiuenis according ; nr.v,We. tolls. &c. bv wav oi lun-
a- . - . J t . C ' '
nis possession, aim ne ; cheon to a.pt,ase il9 v
ed repttdiators; b it didn't the Bondholders themselves repudiate, and do they noi even now owe us upwards of three millions of dollars for bonds fraudulently obtained and rever paid for! Mr. M'D. then referred lo the Binkrapt law, an I said so ns of these very Bondholders, no doubt, look the benefit of that infamous law: ba; said, notwith
standing, if the State was able, he would;
vote to pay the whole debt, and thereby get rid of the i nporiunity of tha Slate creditors. He would, however, make it a condition precedent, thai they must swear
nsver more to make their appearance with
a bargain between herself ! P'Ple ol Indiana were a moral and debtrs; and the only question 1 P ing p;opV, and he only wished ht
he
now is how to get out o! the difficulty. He foil"aJ " mucn 01 some 01 me oona it..,..h. i i.nt t i. ii. .;in tr. th i holders represented by that gentleman.
n,.nT. thv .ro n,.r n-.liiir.l realms. ' some of whom have cheated us out of near '
He differed with his friend from Wayne hree nd h'f millions of dollats. The
ill some points; an 1 agreed with bi n pe.opie count tt. o turceu into measurrs, others. He did not believe the people ! nd he 'hed to see the biil passed by
unanimity.
Mr. NELSON re to define his position
could be thai the
hii.nbiiggeJ an! le-1 esiray.or Representative coulJ act with
in the limits efthe State. Th-ra u ibis , pie) out wnai ne ovni aupport ne out. differnce bitJvee.n 1S23. and lH, thu, ti Mr. LANK sai-t thrf a a miappre
more wisdom when ou; of iheir sight than ! as one of the Representative of old Montwhen in it. Tlie peo ale were seated at i gomery. He regretted to hear serious
the project because thejr could noi under-, charges made against members, upon thai ,
stand il. He diun t know but when he went home (if it was relet red to the peo-
lle had no desire lo avoid responsibility.
jor to adopt any course of action as a mem
ber for the purpose of creating a hobby. The question w-as then lken on a reconsideration and decided in the affirmative ayes 55, noes 37. Mr. Haz'erigg then moved to amend the amendment by adding that if the majority of the voters, as indicated by the vote for Governor, do noi vole against ihe bill, the Governor shall by a proclamation to be issued ten tlnas after ihe vole shall be ascertained, declare the law in force. Mr. SECREST said he ha : voted for l,e reconsideration of ihe vote on the amendment, tin ler pledges received from gentlemen lhat they would unite upon a compromise, which lie was at.oiii to submit, and for which purpose lie asked Messrs. Clymer and Hazlc-ipg to withdraw iheir amendments. The proposition is in substance, to look to ihe Wabash & Erie Canal and canal lands, exclusively, for the
payment of one hal f of ihe entire public
I debt. Mr. S. hoped the gentleman from
Elkhart would withdraw his amendment, so that a vote might be taken upon ihe new proposition. Mr. C. refused to withdraw it. The amendment to submit to the people did not pretai; arcs 41, no.s 5J. Mr. SECREST then offered his amendment, as above.
Mr. McDONALO. as usual, got up again wilh his enternnnable gurrilny, and, bored the House w ith similar siufTio lhat heretofore omitted; without sense, coherency, r any other apparent object than lhat of astonishing the House by monstrous avowals tif doctrines subversive alike of pubiie and private morals. Mr. CLYMER opposed ihe amendment, and said it was spring upon the House suddenly, and in an ung-'ntlemanly way. It was a clad trap, and he w arned gentlemen against ihe consequences of adopting it. Mr. RILEY said the amendment had not hi approbation. He did not like Ihe manner in w hich il h id came into the Hall. Il was a kind of Yankee manm-rte; a majority, lie believed, were 111 f.ivor of submitting the proposition to the people. The fiiends of the measure are afraid of ihe people. lie spoke at coi.siderable length. Mr. CARR explained the t harae'.er of the proposition; which, he said, had heen offered by himself in ihe joint Committee, and then voted down. Mr. SECREST explained. He said ihe majority of the Committee had voted against ihe proposition at the time of Us introduction by Mr. Carr. for ihe reaon that they had ascertained that Mr. Butler did
then feel authorized 1 o accept it. I hey
approved of i but did not think it practical. The amendment was adopted ayes 82, noes 7. Mr. DAVIS mover, to arr.rnd by ci!n ihe Legislature power to alter or amend the act at any time. Mr. Ri'ey moved t amend the amendment, by limiting ihi power of rep ! 10 the ses? ions of IMft 7;
but it was lost. Th amendment of Mr.
floor, of repudiation He was no repudi.-j - ; Rxrt f,nop, m
wr,rn.r..r.rU.r.,5 r i Mr.CRRhrn rn.-vedlrt rec,.,.-A.r
or tni. dm, ano cow """ " , 0r lh, Prcpori..a -f the
lis never nw a tnearure vu rrt r.
f nt'e.